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No constitutional right to clean water, federal court finds

usatoday.com

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Re: No constitutional right to clean water, federal court finds

#61
post #20

> He [judge] also said there was no constitutional right to “truthful information from officials during a public health crisis.” We should have "spirit of the law" courts. This is absurd.

I completely disagree. Not everything can be included in the Constitution. We have ordinary laws to address things like this.

What ordinary law requires officials to issue truthful statements? We're living in the era of unrestrained executive power.

Re: No constitutional right to clean water, federal court finds

#62
As a not American, why does freedom of speech include corporations giving money that are not citizens nor talking. But even that Congress has the power to spend "to provide for the common defence and general welfare" given by the constitution it still not a right to receive any of that.

I have a feeling that there is a interpretation bias in favor of corporations over human life.

Re: No constitutional right to clean water, federal court finds

#63
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that was taken as valid justification for government intervention, why not just elect a king that promises to be do "good" things?

Can’t say that I follow. What does a king have to do with forming a more perfect Union, establishing Justice, insuring domestic Tranquility, providing for the common defense, promoting the general Welfare, and securing the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our posterity?

If you allow justifying government power according to some ambiguous notion of general welfare, then all you need to say is that something promotes general welfare. There is more to the structure of the US system than the preamble to the constitution.

Re: No constitutional right to clean water, federal court finds

#64
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> pursuing tort claims Which certainly won't get thrown out over qualified immunity. (And if they win a case against the city, it's coming out of their own pockets!)

At most that will just get it dismissed against some individual plaintiffs. It won't affect their case against the city and any companies such as the engineering firm that was a defendant in this particular lawsuit.

If the engineering firm is acting as an 'agent of the state' then the protections extend to them as well. Otherwise we wouldn't be able to protect private prisons, etc from being sued, and we can't have that happening in America. So the court invented a fake protection (qualified immunity), and then invented a fake protected class called 'agents of the state'.

Re: No constitutional right to clean water, federal court finds

#65

Correct. You may demand clean water from your local government, in return for taxes, but it isn't any sort of basic right. And certainly is not mentioned in the US Constitution. Much like food or medical care: fundamental rights can never depend on the work of other people. Otherwise you can demand that work, which imposes on their rights.

> fundamental rights can never depend on the work of other people

It is the government’s responsibility to ensure the people who provide those services are hired and paid. Nobody is demanding anyone to work for free or to be forced to work on something they don’t want.

At some point, we might get there and mechanisms to compel society to work enough so that society doesn’t collapse will be considered some sort of civic duty.

Re: No constitutional right to clean water, federal court finds

#66

> In the majority decision, Judge Kurt Engelhardt wrote that while the deprivation of clean water was “grievous,” it did “not infringe upon any deeply rooted constitutional right.” “We are skeptical that the right to not be harmed by lead-contaminated water fits within the right to bodily integrity, and Plaintiffs point us to no historical tradition or Supreme Court precedent convincing us,” he wrote. The Ninth Amend…

I'm not sure why you think the Ninth Amendment is relevant here. It just establishes that there are rights not listed in the Constitution. It provides no help whatsoever in determine what those rights are.

If you want to know more on how that is done you want to look into "Substantive Due Process". There are a couple approaches that courts might use. One is looking to see if the alleged right is deeply rooted in history and tradition and implicit in the idea of ordered liberty. Another is the so-called "penumbras and emanations" test where they look at existing rights and infer some broader unlisted right that is needed to make the listed rights meaningful.

Re: No constitutional right to clean water, federal court finds

#67
post #34

It's interesting how a lot of newer countries just put the right to water directly in the constitution. South Africa says some stuff about the government having an obligation toward "progressive realization" of the goal [1], whereas Slovenia just straight says water is a right [2]. [1]: https://www.gov.za/documents/constitution/chapter-2-bill-rig... [2]: https://www.uradni-list.si/glasilo-uradni-list-rs/vsebina/12...

people do learn from history, even through too little

Re: No constitutional right to clean water, federal court finds

#68

> He [judge] also said there was no constitutional right to “truthful information from officials during a public health crisis.” We should have "spirit of the law" courts. This is absurd.

I think it’s time for an amendment that says something like “public officials shall never mislead the public or issue materially false statements”. That would be a huge progress for the US.

Re: No constitutional right to clean water, federal court finds

#70

> He [judge] also said there was no constitutional right to “truthful information from officials during a public health crisis.” We should have "spirit of the law" courts. This is absurd.

This is a double edged sword right? Allowing judges to interpret the “spirit of the law” more widely would create a different set of absurdities, I think.

It's one of those things people only want when it benefits their ideas in the moment.
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