Bill Gates tries to install MovieMaker (2003) • Hacker News Board

Re: Bill Gates tries to install MovieMaker (2003)

#111

Post by basisword » Mon, Sep 07, 2026, 6:19 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #63

bluegatty wrote: post #51

They think it's 'some issues' :) :) :) It's a fundamental, cultural and systemic lack of concern for those issues. An 'afterthought' that should be 'integral'. That Gates did not realize that means it's 100% on him. 1000% actually. He was struggling with the language of design and usability in 2003, not even realizing even the implications of what he was seeing (because it would require total rethink). Like a cars co…

As for Jobs, I bought a Mac Mini last summer. I wanted to use iMovie to clip the edges off of a movie file. I clipped the edges, but was unable to discover how to save the resulting file, and gave up. Microsoft's Movie Maker has a menu item to save a file. I use the Mini every day, but only via a tty window.

There's a menu item. I believe it's File > Share > then you choose how (save to disk, email, export to photos app etc).

File > Save doesn't make sense because you would be saving your iMovie project. You're trying to export the final video from the project, not save it.

The problem was using a far too complex tool to do a simple job (and not understanding how the tool works). You can trim a video in Quicktime or Photos which directly manipulates the file.

Re: Bill Gates tries to install MovieMaker (2003)

#112

Post by basisword » Mon, Sep 07, 2026, 6:20 PM UTC

dbtc wrote: post #68

WalterBright wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As for Jobs, I bought a Mac Mini last summer. I wanted to use iMovie to clip the edges off of a movie file. I clipped the edges, but was unable to discover how to save the resulting file, and gave up. Microsoft's Movie Maker has a menu item to save a file. I use the Mini every day, but only via a tty window.

I've used QuickTime for that, which has the expected menu items.

The Photos app (on Mac/iOS) has the same trim interface as QT too.

Re: Bill Gates tries to install MovieMaker (2003)

#113

Post by microcantbuilt » Mon, Sep 07, 2026, 6:23 PM UTC

I've said this before but it's worth repeating.

Microsoft can no longer engineer a software product, it simply cannot build anything innovative. It can certainly buy other companies and use what they have built. But even then they will over time ruin the product.

Re: Bill Gates tries to install MovieMaker (2003)

#114

Post by dyzone » Mon, Sep 07, 2026, 6:23 PM UTC

486sx33 wrote: post #8

Interestingly, Gupta didn’t reply at all, despite being named on bill’s original email directly. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/people/anoop/ He was natural-user-interface director at the time

Gupta means "hidden" or "secret", kek.

Re: Bill Gates tries to install MovieMaker (2003)

#115

Post by georgemcbay » Mon, Sep 07, 2026, 6:24 PM UTC

3eb7988a1663 wrote: post #26

My favorite bit about this is how none of the execs want to take ownership of the change, but instead trying to put someone else in the hot seat and/or start a Committee. This feels like an email that should have been blasted to the entire company. Top-down, empower employees to think of a more unified experience. Then again, all of the external jokes about Microsoft indicate that every department is fighting for the…

> My favorite bit about this is how none of the execs want to take ownership of the change, but instead trying to put someone else in the hot seat and/or start a Committee.

And with the exception of John Martin's reply (which recognizes that there are deeper problems they should think about, but seems resigned to the fact that that won't happen) the focus is pretty much entirely: "let's fix the exact issues Bill Gates ran into trying to download this one product we produce" (out of many hundreds/thousands) rather than "let's fix the root causes that caused us to arrive in this place to begin with".

I haven't worked at any companies as large and siloed as Microsoft, but I'd assume this is pretty common for them, at least if they don't have a Steve Jobs-like tyrant who both has all the power and is singularly product focused.

Re: Bill Gates tries to install MovieMaker (2003)

#116

Post by thinkling » Mon, Sep 07, 2026, 6:28 PM UTC

bluegatty wrote: post #88

jameshart wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This email was literally BillG sending an email to the people he holds accountable for this, pointing out to them that he believes his experience resulted from a systematic lack of attention to end to end user experience. I’m not sure why you see this as evidence BillG didn’t understand that to be his job.

I have struggle to understand how someone could come to that conclusion, maybe I missed something? The email is a 'rant'. It's a 'list of broken stuff'. It's not: 1) identifying underlying first principles of design or UX that have been broken 2) not identifying which parts of the system may have resulted in the negative outcome 3) not reference for either operational or cultural that were braoched or need to be addr…

In 2003, Gates was no longer CEO; I think he was President of the Board and something like "Special Advisor"? None of the people involved reported to him, so he may actually correctly have felt he could not tell them what to do?--so he stuck to venting his frustration.

Re: Bill Gates tries to install MovieMaker (2003)

#117

Post by dzonga » Mon, Sep 07, 2026, 6:31 PM UTC

BillG discovering the negative effects of BigCo's not having a Directly Responsible Individual.

in the whole email thread - no one owns up to fix it - they're just passing the hot potato around.

26 years later - windows is still a mess.

Re: Bill Gates tries to install MovieMaker (2003)

#118

Post by vjvjvjvjghv » Mon, Sep 07, 2026, 6:34 PM UTC

georgemcbay wrote: post #115

3eb7988a1663 wrote: post #26

My favorite bit about this is how none of the execs want to take ownership of the change, but instead trying to put someone else in the hot seat and/or start a Committee. This feels like an email that should have been blasted to the entire company. Top-down, empower employees to think of a more unified experience. Then again, all of the external jokes about Microsoft indicate that every department is fighting for the…

> My favorite bit about this is how none of the execs want to take ownership of the change, but instead trying to put someone else in the hot seat and/or start a Committee. And with the exception of John Martin's reply (which recognizes that there are deeper problems they should think about, but seems resigned to the fact that that won't happen) the focus is pretty much entirely: "let's fix the exact issues Bill Gate…

It's very common. From a certain level up, execs rarely use the products they are responsible for. It's all about strategy, committees, meetings, plans and reports. For them the product is just an abstract thing. When I rented a Buick car, I thought to myself that there is no way any decision maker ever tried the car and thought that this is ok.

I think one of the strengths of Apple during the Jobs days was that Jobs actually sometimes seemed to use the products himself and gave feedback. When I look at the blatant bugs MacOS and iOS had in the last years, I also think that the current Apple big shots never use their stuff or they would have noticed.

Re: Bill Gates tries to install MovieMaker (2003)

#119

Post by Sharlin » Mon, Sep 07, 2026, 6:41 PM UTC

basisword wrote: post #111

WalterBright wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As for Jobs, I bought a Mac Mini last summer. I wanted to use iMovie to clip the edges off of a movie file. I clipped the edges, but was unable to discover how to save the resulting file, and gave up. Microsoft's Movie Maker has a menu item to save a file. I use the Mini every day, but only via a tty window.

There's a menu item. I believe it's File > Share > then you choose how (save to disk, email, export to photos app etc). File > Save doesn't make sense because you would be saving your iMovie project. You're trying to export the final video from the project, not save it. The problem was using a far too complex tool to do a simple job (and not understanding how the tool works). You can trim a video in Quicktime or Phot…

There's no File > Export?!

Re: Bill Gates tries to install MovieMaker (2003)

#120

Post by Twirrim » Mon, Sep 07, 2026, 6:44 PM UTC

georgemcbay wrote: post #115

3eb7988a1663 wrote: post #26

My favorite bit about this is how none of the execs want to take ownership of the change, but instead trying to put someone else in the hot seat and/or start a Committee. This feels like an email that should have been blasted to the entire company. Top-down, empower employees to think of a more unified experience. Then again, all of the external jokes about Microsoft indicate that every department is fighting for the…

> My favorite bit about this is how none of the execs want to take ownership of the change, but instead trying to put someone else in the hot seat and/or start a Committee. And with the exception of John Martin's reply (which recognizes that there are deeper problems they should think about, but seems resigned to the fact that that won't happen) the focus is pretty much entirely: "let's fix the exact issues Bill Gate…

There was nothing surprising in that email chain at all, looking at it as someone with lots of experience in large companies.

In a twisted kind of way, the replies were reasonable and logical. They're not dumb, they can see it was crap. No one org can actually own this fix, so in that kind of situation it realistically requires someone like Bill to choose someone to drive it, and demand updates to ensure that everyone gets aligned. Telling his execs, especially in a company so notoriously political and "empire" oriented as it was, isn't going to work.

I actually liked that in Amazon, Jeff Bezos used to send out the infamous "question mark" emails on such a regular basis that they built an exec commitee specifically for the purposes of driving direct action on problems. Didn't matter where you were, or what you were working on, if that question mark email came you dropped everything to work on it.