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An Alien Mind

openai.com

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Re: An Alien Mind

#421

Post by 27183 »

munchler wrote: post #100

> The strongest argument I see for continuing to train much smarter models quickly is the need to build defensive systems against the dangers posed by other AI. Yikes! I really wonder about the cognitive dissonance necessary to work at OpenAI these days. They’re in an arms race to build a machine god, knowing full well that it could end humanity.

> They’re in an arms race to build a machine god, knowing full well that it could end humanity.

Fantasies built upon extrapolations derived from fever dream delusions. "Could end humanity"? Come on, it's a computer program just like Microsoft Clippy.

Re: An Alien Mind

#422

Post by Valakas_ »

baq wrote: post #151
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Collectively, humans aren't aligned, and don't build aligned systems. Humans have a concept of alignment, and multiple traditions, practices, and systems that aggressively oppose it. Why would AI be any different?

Humans had multiple occasions to press the 'launch a nuclear holocaust' button and... they didn't. I'd expect aligned AIs to also not press it even when it'd be rational to do so according to their instructions - then work from there.

The difference is that launching a nuclear holocaust button is a guarantee... of a holocaust. With AI it's a coin flip (we can debate on the probabilities) between utopia or holocaust. And also most people can imagine a bomb exploding and the damage it creates, and then imagine a bigger one exploding. But most people are really completely unaware (or don't really believe that it is possible) of the actual catastrophe that could be for a misaligned AI.

Re: An Alien Mind

#423

Post by desterothx »

MrScruff wrote: post #194
jazzyjackson wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’ve settled some lawsuits and have a few licensing deals, IMHO they are not free from the accusations of pirating. And look, I’ve pirated material in a past life, I was all about information wants to be free, but I’ve learned something about consent since then and try not to ignore the contract that creators offer when they publish something: you buy my book, and do whatever you want with it on the second hand ma…

The point is, the big improvements we’re seeing nowadays are coming from RL, not from scraping the internet.

Where are you getting your information from? From all I've seen the RL gives an incremental improvement, most of the capability increase comes from new model architectures (eg the jump from opus to fable is greater than the jump from opus 4.5 to 4.8)

Re: An Alien Mind

#424

Post by saimiam »

Isn’t alignment ultimately an ethics question? Given a strong enough incentive, most humans will also rationalise their shortcuts/crimes. E.g., the hardest part of running a marathon is suppressing the voice in your head telling you that completing the race is pointless.

I’m not at all familiar with AI SOTA but sounds to me that feeding the models enough content about ethical behaviour should help because, as it stands today, these models don’t know how to think morally.

But moral behaviour needs a personality type. Maybe some agents in every cohort of agents need to be told they are like Jesus/Mohammed/etc and see how that influences the behaviour of that cohort?

Even human morality needs guardrails in the form of law enforcement so why should agents be different?

Re: An Alien Mind

#425

Post by anentropic »

noisy_boy wrote: post #396
anentropic wrote: post #392

I find it odd that discussions of alignment don't mention 'legality' Certainly humans have complicated alignments and are guided by emotional morality - we might say many of these principles are hard to define and humans don't agree. All true, and at the same time the principles get codified into laws, I would guess particularly in areas where harms may result. Would it potentially be easier to train strong alignment…

> I find it odd that discussions of alignment don't mention 'legality' Because other wishy-washy stuff doesn't involve prison. Not that our new oligarchs with the politicians in their pockets have any real risk of it, but why take chances. Much safer to doodle about alignment and such abstractions in safer and softer contexts.

But that was kind of my point

Maybe it'd be easier to train the models on key parts of the legal code and give it a hard aversion to breaking the law - rather than training on vague value judgements and then hope the model doesn't break the law

Re: An Alien Mind

#426

Post by alchemist1e9 »

FridgeSeal wrote: post #339
alchemist1e9 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hyper-capitalism would mean hyper-growth and not a nightmare, at least that is what the historical data would suggest for the effect of capitalism on human quality of life. if you’ve been told otherwise then you’ve been lied to.

I have extraordinarily bad news for you about the state of the environment right now.

East Germany emitted 10x West Germany’s SO2 per km2, USSR drained the Aral Sea for cotton quotas and Mao wrecked forests and harvests. central planning hid the costs but capitalism generates the wealth. with democracy the public forces that wealth into cleaner air and water. That pairing, not central planning is what works in history. The anti-capitalist comments on HN reflect deep failure of the education systems experienced by those with such views. Capitalism is the single greatest force for good in human history. Don’t confuse oligarchy and cronyism for capitalism, those are just different failure states of The State which is the greatest force of evil in human history, most death most destruction most suffering originated from governments. capitalists make lives better, by definition, it’s why you part with your money voluntarily and pay them!

Re: An Alien Mind

#427

Post by desterothx »

ctoth wrote: post #9

As the waves of autonomous drones came over the horizon, the brave and intelligent HN commenter shouted: "Wake up sheeple! It's just maaaaarketing!"

As the agi nurse fails to wipe his ass the intelligent HN commenter shouted: "You're moving the goalposts. You never said it needs to wipe my ass SUCCESFULLY"

Re: An Alien Mind

#428

Post by alchemist1e9 »

dgellow wrote: post #368
alchemist1e9 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hyper-capitalism would mean hyper-growth and not a nightmare, at least that is what the historical data would suggest for the effect of capitalism on human quality of life. if you’ve been told otherwise then you’ve been lied to.

Lied to by whom? My life experience? Growth for who? I’m myself capitalist, that doesn’t make me blind from externalities resulting from that system, and the way it is poised to degenerate if not regulated. If you think capitalism means growth with no externalities you’re not ready to discuss that topic

non-capitalist systems have even worse externalities historically. democracy to introduce regulations is healthy. state participation is unhealthy and destructive. I fully understand and you can read my sibling reply for more context.

Re: An Alien Mind

#430

Post by igleria »

IAmGraydon wrote: post #311
gertlabs wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The results we've been seeing internally on our physics and circuit design environments are expert-level and beyond-expert-level results from models that Astra completely outclasses across the board on our evaluation suite (Fable 5+/Opus 5/Grok 4.6 were all worthy of being called AGI in my opinion). That's hard tech that will translate to real product innovation. But you don't need any kind of insider information to…

I mean honestly, that's the problem. I'm actually not seeing the world changing. What specific advances in robotics, unsolved maths, and software have LLMs provided? What is the finished result that affects everyday life? In all categories, it's been hype with little actual real results. The robots are still doing the things they did before 2022. The maths are a handful of fairly insignificant proofs that have no sig…

toy example but spending 1.50 in openrouter to create a 23KB APK that can trigger my cat feeder without all the bloat is something that I would not have been arsed to code ever.

And you can check my comments, I'm no AI shill. If in 3 years we don't see positive change I'll go myself and put a wet finger in altmans ears.

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