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Please don't rearrange our shoes when we turn up, paramedics in Japan urge

theguardian.com

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Re: Please don't rearrange our shoes when we turn up, paramedics in Japan urge

#151

Post by throw0101a »

ericpauley wrote: post #131
embedding-shape wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That said, I don’t think it’s really rational. Our houses are full of bacteria and dirt one way or another anyway. True, but I don't know about you, but we don't have literal rocks, sediment, dirt pee, or literal poop on our floors in our home, anywhere. But shoes do occasionally step on stuff like that no matter how small, and neither of those things I want inside of my house on the floor. But you're right that th…

> rocks, sediment, dirt pee, or literal poop This is basically what dust is. It’s everywhere.

>> rocks, sediment, dirt pee, or literal poop

> This is basically what dust is. It’s everywhere.

What?

> Dust in homes is composed of about 20–50% dead skin cells.[2] The rest, and in offices and other built environments, is composed of small amounts of plant pollen, human hairs, animal fur, textile fibers, paper fibers, minerals from outdoor soil, burnt meteorite particles, and many other materials which may be found in the local environment.[3]

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust

Further: dust is floating in the air and can be removed with decent (MERV ≥11) air filters in your HVAC system. Stuff on the bottom of your shoe makes contact with your floor and stick around until you wash it (and for much longer in the fibre of carpet or rugs).

Re: Please don't rearrange our shoes when we turn up, paramedics in Japan urge

#152

Post by embedding-shape »

makeitdouble wrote: post #147
embedding-shape wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> TBF getting shoes on and off is literally 2s. What about when you're three people while carrying a person? According to the article, it can delay them by ~30 seconds and risk dislodging the oxygen mask, the linked video also demonstrates the difference: https://www.instagram.com/p/DbqGfGfox3f/ Might seem like a small difference, but add in a stressful situation with a person almost dying, maybe being in pain, and t…

I'd look at it from the lens of the situation near the door changing in unexpected ways. Like turning the thumblock, moving the bench, shoving other people's shoes in the way etc. There is a myriad of things the patient's family can do that result in 30s delays. Sure removing one specific potential cause could have value, but it might not be worth it considering the downsides (someone will have to deal with the mess,…

> (someone will have to deal with the mess, sometimes the lone elderly who's already in pain but not 30s from death either)

What mess? They're taking off their shoes regardless, and there is no additional mess being created by the resident not reorganizing the shoes of the paramedics.

There is no downsides here, just stop moving stuff around, pretty basic and no cost at all for stop doing so.

Re: Please don't rearrange our shoes when we turn up, paramedics in Japan urge

#153

Post by setopt »

tdeck wrote: post #133
swiftcoder wrote: post #74

It is mind blowing to me that the shoes-off-inside rule is so deeply entrenched that emergency responders remove their shoes at the front door

People in Japan not only take their shoes off at home, but also in many other places as well. Most elementary schools and many doctors offices, eye doctors, etc.. have you take your shoes off, although it varies from place to place. Some restaurants require you to take your shoes off. I once visited a radio station and they took their shoes off there too for some reason (no, I don't believe it was ESD related). So pe…

Sounds wonderful. I remove my shoes in the office as well, since not doing so has led to health issues in the past, but it’s not so hygienic when everyone from colleagues to cleaning staff visit your office with their shoes on.

(Where I live, this is the norm at home, but not at office or public places.)

Re: Please don't rearrange our shoes when we turn up, paramedics in Japan urge

#154

Post by hulitu »

makeitdouble wrote: post #121
cromka wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I think that it's a good example where politeness and respect ingrained in society can be taken a step too far. I don't want my rescuers waste 30-45s on taking shoes off and after I had a stroke and minutes decide whether or not I ended up with a permanent brain damage...

TBF getting shoes on and off is literally 2s. There's photos in the article, those aren't dress shoes with laces to be done and undone, they're fit for the purpose. Also in cases where it's really dire they'll just step in with shoes on, it's just extremely rare and it might actually be another team altogether, operating under a different protocol.

> TBF getting shoes on and off is literally 2s.

I bet you don't have children. 2s might be too late in an emergency.

Re: Please don't rearrange our shoes when we turn up, paramedics in Japan urge

#156

Post by Aerroon »

tdeck wrote: post #133
swiftcoder wrote: post #74

It is mind blowing to me that the shoes-off-inside rule is so deeply entrenched that emergency responders remove their shoes at the front door

People in Japan not only take their shoes off at home, but also in many other places as well. Most elementary schools and many doctors offices, eye doctors, etc.. have you take your shoes off, although it varies from place to place. Some restaurants require you to take your shoes off. I once visited a radio station and they took their shoes off there too for some reason (no, I don't believe it was ESD related). So pe…

>I once visited a radio station and they took their shoes off there too for some reason (no, I don't believe it was ESD related).

Isn't it reasonable/normal to take shoes off at work and put on indoor does like sandals or similar ("work shoes")? Obviously it depends on the job, but it seems reasonable to me at a radio station. And if the regular employees are wearing indoor shoes, then it might become normal for outdoor shoes to not be typically worn inside.

Re: Please don't rearrange our shoes when we turn up, paramedics in Japan urge

#158

Post by numpad0 »

hbcdbff wrote: post #128
socalgal2 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously, in an emergency, yea, keep them on. That said, > In Dutch culture it is far more common to keep shoes on literally everywhere It is in many cultures, including my own family's, but having gotten used to taking them off from living in Japan, I find it extremely strange taking them off is not more common. It feel similar to doctors refusing to wash their hands during surgery, though I get I'm not doing surge…

I also take my shoes and off and find it gross when people don’t. That said, I don’t think it’s really rational. Our houses are full of bacteria and dirt one way or another anyway. It’s impossible to avoid that without having some kind of airlock equipped with a shower in your porch.

I think it has or had practical reasons. It rains a lot in Japan, and its prime occupation used to be flooded field rice farming. So it is/was normal for shoes coming home to be in a somewhat gross state.

Old farmer style houses in Japan have an entrance area behind the main sliding doors in bare soil[1], and a wooden platform at waist height between it to hallways. The platform can be sat on to take off shoes or to drop off bags of produces, and then hallways and tatami matted areas are further raised an inch or two - the walking floor level of houses are therefore give or take a whole feet off the ground. These together create multiple mental boundaries for dirtiness.

Modern houses have it miniaturized into just a cinder-block high gap or sometimes just industrial colored tiles before a bump. But IMO it's still nice being able to leave wet shoes and umbrellas there.

1: 土間 or doma, meaning soil-space. Oddly this transliteration coincides with "home" in Russian(and of course rhymes with Latin domus).

Re: Please don't rearrange our shoes when we turn up, paramedics in Japan urge

#159

Post by Der_Einzige »

djeastm wrote: post #123
fakedang wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most (literate, educated) Indians have been trained the same, and it has very little to do with religion. When you do accidentally step on a book though, each religion has their own format - Hindus touch the book then touch their head then chest in penance, Muslims lightly kiss the book or touch the book/bag and kiss their hand, Christians touch the book and cross themselves. This is something I've noticed is uniquel…

The behavior sounds like superstition. Is there a belief that something bad will happen if the ritual is not performed?

All of this crap including taking your shoes off indoors is predicated on superstitions that are simply not politically correct to call out.

Re: Please don't rearrange our shoes when we turn up, paramedics in Japan urge

#160

Post by Der_Einzige »

swingandamiss wrote: post #3

More Japanese obsessed hacker news posts. What's up with this? There's a daily post on HN of various topics, usually something obscure, about Japan. Why?

Go look at the demographics of how many HN members are in Wmaf relationships and it’ll explain itself perfectly to a tee…
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