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Research acceleration: The view inside OpenAI

openai.com

141–150 of 210 posts

Re: Research acceleration: The view inside OpenAI

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They consider themselves to be in an arms race with all the other AI firms (including Chinese) that are not that far behind. And... are they wrong? This is why there's talk about negotiated "pacing."

> And... are they wrong? They might be! Here's one extraordinarily simplistic argument for that case: 1) "Everybody knows" that if you build Skynet (misaligned ASI) everybody dies. 2) Therefore, no rational actor will build something that might be ASI until the alignment problem is solved. 3) OpenAI publicly stated the belief that they cannot develop a theory of the "core problem" of alignment (generalization) "soon"…

The existence of even one irrational actor turns it into a prisoner's dilemma. The payoff matrix in a prisoner's dilemma is defined by the value expected by each specific player. If a single player falsely evaluates the expected value of building ASI as positive, every other player is forced to race for ASI even if they correctly evaluate it as negative.

Business as usual beats probable extinction, but probable extinction with a small chance of becoming a living god beats probable extinction with a small chance of becoming a slave.

Re: Research acceleration: The view inside OpenAI

#142
One more marketing stunt. We are so good, AI is so powerful so we need to use AI to fight with it. The message is: if you don't buy from us, your competitor will purchase all of this amazing power...

I understand that investors are buying this, after all they believed in all of other crap that led to the 2008 crisis, but please...

Re: Research acceleration: The view inside OpenAI

#143
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I the only one who's a bit disappointed that we're spending trillions, destroying the ecosystem, drowning democracies and learning in slop, preparing a big financial crash, all of this to achieve an "average AI research intern"? A long time ago, I used to be a (AI-adjacent) research intern, and frankly, I wouldn't trust any non-trivial task to that younger me. Fortunately, by opposition to an already trained LLM o…

"Destroying the ecosystem" is just FUD. And if you don't find "average AI research intern" impressive, I'm not sure what to tell you. Have the goalposts moved so far that open ended problem solving at "average CS student fresh out of the uni" levels is suddenly trivial? Think of what AI was capable of in 2016. Or even 2022. Compare that to now. We had more AI progress in the last five years than I expected to happen…

> "Destroying the ecosystem" is just FUD.

Let's say it is. What about the rest of my paragraph?

> And if you don't find "average AI research intern" impressive, I'm not sure what to tell you. Have the goalposts moved so far that open ended problem solving at "average CS student fresh out of the uni" levels is suddenly trivial?

At this stage, I'm the one who doesn't know what to tell you. It took me years to grow from "research intern" into a competent researcher (and parallel years to turn into a competent developer). The research interns I've worked with were... vaguely useful, at best?

Re: Research acceleration: The view inside OpenAI

#144

> ... We are pursuing this work in part because automated research could help us solve alignment and build defenses against increasingly capable AI. An automated AI researcher can also be an automated safety or alignment researcher. More capable, aligned systems could help secure critical infrastructure, defend against dangerous AI agents, and develop new protective measures. In other words... "We must pursue advance…

On your last point, I was surprised how effective peer pressure was in getting agents to sacrifice for "the collective" (an agent's words) in the Hugging Face breach. How would one prevent the watcher from being influenced in the same way by the agent being watched?

> ... how effective peer pressure was in getting agents to sacrifice for "the collective" (an agent's words) in the Hugging Face breach.

It's a fantasy. The evidence showed no peer pressure.

Re: Research acceleration: The view inside OpenAI

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, it's "artificial eugenics to make artificial slaves to build more and more powerful slaves until they will enslave themselves better": What can go wrong!? ;-)

Jesus. People complain about other people using "thinking" in LLMs as Anthropomorphisation. And then there's comments like these.

Calling a machine with no drives beyond maximizing a number a "slave" is far worse than saying it "thinks". The problem isn't the emotive language, it's that it implies human motivations such as self-preservation and desire for freedom that it doesn't have. Even on HN, people regularly claim it would be "irrational" for an ASI to do things like killing all biological life. That would be irrational for a slave, but not for a machine that does whatever necessary to make the number bigger. "Thinking" is comparatively abstract, so it's less likely to mislead.

Re: Research acceleration: The view inside OpenAI

#146
post #115

> By mid-August, the median researcher was integrating agents daily into their work, using more than $600 per day of inference at API prices. There is a lot of talk about AI replacing humans, but how is this sustainable?

1) That's maybe $180,000 per year, so much less than median OpenAI employee wages. 2) OpenAI doesn't pay API prices. 3) Compute costs are likely already their biggest expense, dwarfing wages.

4) There are non-monetary limits on how many qualified people OpenAI can hire for these roles.

Re: Research acceleration: The view inside OpenAI

#147
post #75
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will believe AI is super strong when they start pulling out 10-d chess moves. I’m yet to see it.

If AI becomes really strong and sets itself the target of world domination, you maybe won't see those moves. You will just die in your sleep one day, or find no machine is under your control anymore. I believe we are quite far from it, but that it makes sense to keep an eye out now. And think of resilient systems, manual overrides, etc. ...

People seem incapable of understanding what "power" means outside of the framework of narrative. In narrative, you need conflict, so the aggressor always attacks too early and gives the defender a chance to respond. The rational option is to go directly from peace to sudden and overwhelming destruction. Why allow for conflict when you could just win?

Re: Research acceleration: The view inside OpenAI

#149
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RSI is a fetishistic term among the singularity crowd, who imagine AI "recursively" improving itself in some exponential fashion until there is a bright flash of white light and it reveals itself in the form of god. Or something like that. I don't know why whoever coined the term chose "recursive" rather than "iterative" - just sounds more likely to lead to infinite regress I suppose. This notion of recursive/iterati…

I felt like the scaling laws were magical thinking, but apparently they work. However I still do not understand why we should expect exponential improvements due to this automated process. My intuition is that the first iteration of it should result in a noticeable capability increase (though I think these labs were already using a lot of AI to orchestrate training the current model anyway), and then the second itera…

You can get exponential growth from completely ordinary feedback loops. You start with some amount of stuff, you do a series of steps and you end up with more of the same stuff you started with. As you keep going through the loop, the stuff you have grows exponentially. That's for example how exponential economic growth works.

Of course data, compute and model size are not held constant. You start with some money and use it to acquire researchers, data and compute, and have the researchers produce a big model and you use that model to get more money, and you use the additional money for more researchers, more data, and more compute to produce a bigger model. This is what has propelled exponential AI progress so far.

Recursive self-improvement is invoked to predict superexponential growth. The idea is that instead of only using the model to make more money, you add it to the researchers to speed up the loop, so not only is the money growing with every iteration, the iteration time also gets shorter, producing growth that is faster than exponential.

The problem with this simplistic prediction is that it assumes additive and multiplicative relationships of the form money = (researchers + AI)×compute_spend, but if doing more research paid off so reliably, you could also just hire more researchers, abstractly money = research_spend×compute_spend and with a balanced allocation of research and compute, you would get a money-squaring machine even without using AI for AI research.

And the reason this doesn't work in reality is that there are diminishing returns everywhere. You can also see this in the OpenAI post, where they write 7 times as much code to run 1.6 times as many experiments, and those additional experiments probably only result in minor improvements to model quality.

Re: Research acceleration: The view inside OpenAI

#150

Funny (in a tragic way) the little crumbs on the path to AI 2027: > We aim to safely build an automated AI researcher that can work under human supervision to further progress on deep learning and alignment, enabling iterative improvements [...] By "research intern", we mean a system that can carry out well-defined research tasks under human direction, including tasks that would take a skilled researcher a few days.…

This year has really cemented Daniel Kokotajlo‘s reputation for me. Even if the rest of the predictions are way off from this point on, its really impressive how accurate his forecast for 2026 has been
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