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Switzerland's Federal Government Is Replacing Microsoft on 3k Computers

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Re: Switzerland's Federal Government Is Replacing Microsoft on 3k Computers

#91

Post by embedding-shape »

watwut wrote: post #87
embedding-shape wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would this mean that if Country A for example starts closing their border for fleeing citizens of Country B, Country A would no longer be considered neutral in the Country-B Country-C war? I'm interested in how much you have to do/not have to do, in order for no longer be considered neutral. I think, once you read about each individual country and what they did before/during/after WW2, it seems like not a single coun…

There is a difference between someone running from persecution and someone leaving because they might be conscripted into invasion they agree with or because they dont like the economy. Equating Russians with Jews is particularly ugly here. You could sorta a little equate Ukrainians, a little. And yes, actual historical events and motivations of past actors matter. Yes, there were multiple fully on-the-nazi side coun…

> That does not make the comparison you made meaningful.

Yeah, even when I tried my best to, apparently the labels just fire up too much emotions. I've removed the country names completely as it's irrelevant to what I was trying to discuss.

> Equating Russians with Jews is particularly ugly here

I didn't do anything of the like in the original text, but good try!

Re: Switzerland's Federal Government Is Replacing Microsoft on 3k Computers

#92

Post by 0xDEAFBEAD »

Atariman wrote: post #78
0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

I doubt that. But there's a broader lesson here. Many critics of US foreign policy assume, without justification, that any US foreign policy involvement means the US is entirely to blame for any suboptimal outcome. Positive outcomes (for example, a long, unprecedented period of peace and prosperity in Europe) are conveniently excluded from the analysis.

Of course, it's always possible to raise your expectations so that every outcome counts as "negative", so you always get a chance to blame the US.

The Swiss are very clever. By staying quiet they avoid responsibility for anything or blame for anything. When the US stays neutral, we are told we are "complicit" or "abandoning allies".

Re: Switzerland's Federal Government Is Replacing Microsoft on 3k Computers

#93

Post by Rochus »

Atariman wrote: post #41

As a Swiss, I'm happy they finally try it. It's only around 5% of all government machines, but at least it's a start and I wish them all the best! We have to get independent asap from the US, they never were our (or any other countries) "friends" and most likely never will be. OSS ftw!

Wouldn't a true Swiss person be neutral and cautious, and wouldn't they refrain from parroting all sorts of nonsense in public about other countries? Anyway, it doesn’t exactly seem like smart move when a government agency tasked with protecting its citizens’ sensitive information switches on a large scale from local, closed networks with energy-efficient desktop applications to externally hosted SaaS infrastructure, with wasteful, fragile, unsecure browser-based applications, sending each byte over many borders. This development should never have happened in the first place.

Re: Switzerland's Federal Government Is Replacing Microsoft on 3k Computers

#94

Post by robocat »

alkonaut wrote: post #56
3RTB297 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Office is very much not a problem. LibreOffice has UI plugins that arrange everything in a standard Office pre-365 layout. I've been using it for years and I can't recall a single time I've ran into any issues. I think Excel macros are where the start of dealbreakers begin, which is a niche issue. 90+% of Office users won't hit that wall. Second, the EU has been pouring money into an OpenOffice fork for official use…

The 10% excel sheets are exactly the problem. You can replace 90% or even 99% with either some online simpler office suite or none at all. But it will turn out there are business critical things running in 2003 format excel sheets with macros and if anything stops working then the organization stops working. The person who made these sheets and macros has retired 20 years ago and "updating it" would require making a…

How many people in most government positions are using Excel?

SaaS and mobile has taken over many apps. We sell SaaS to business and govt clients where most end users are either on a browser or a mobile app. There is a Windows application (path dependent history) but it is almost vestigial for configuration/management.

Re: Switzerland's Federal Government Is Replacing Microsoft on 3k Computers

#95

Post by nephihaha »

tedggh wrote: post #83
Atariman wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We were neutral, but it's always funny how many US-guys always bring up WW2. That was maybe the last time, the US did anything "good" for the world. But yeah, I think it's useless to argue with you.

Switzerland was “neutral” not neutral. The Swiss certainly crossed into the complicit side quite often, profiting from the Nazi regime, laundering their looted gold and closing their borders to fleeing Jews.

"Switzerland was “neutral” not neutral. The Swiss certainly crossed into the complicit side quite often, profiting from the Nazi regime, laundering their looted gold and closing their borders to fleeing Jews."

That still counts as neutral, as does Sweden's activities. Switzerland interned allied airmen and was even bombed but stayed out of the war.

There is a wonderful quote from the Irish parliament. The Irish government wanted to be neutral, but one of the politicians asked "but who shall we be neutral against ?" (By the way, the nature of the Irish Free State's "neutrality" remains controversial to this day, and again, I could point to examples both ways.) It is hard to think of any fully neutral countries in WW2, partly due to the large empires spanning Africa, Asia and the Pacific. Maybe certain Latin American countries, except some of them joined the war at the end and/or took in Nazi refugees like Eichmann.

Re: Switzerland's Federal Government Is Replacing Microsoft on 3k Computers

#96

Post by nephihaha »

pjc50 wrote: post #90
tedggh wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switzerland was “neutral” not neutral. The Swiss certainly crossed into the complicit side quite often, profiting from the Nazi regime, laundering their looted gold and closing their borders to fleeing Jews.

> closing their borders to fleeing Jews. This is such a landmine topic, because most countries did this, including the UK and the US; see e.g. the MS St. Louis. This is why there are several "heroes of the resistance" that in modern parlance are "people smugglers", forging credentials and visas in order to help people escape. Today you see exactly the same hostile attitudes to non-white refugees of basically every wa…

Despite what Hollywood says, WW2 was more to do with German militarism and expansionism than the Jewish question. The Allies were certainly willing to use pro-Jewish sentiments and some Jewish troops, but it was never presented as the main issue.

Re: Switzerland's Federal Government Is Replacing Microsoft on 3k Computers

#97

Post by philipallstar »

Atariman wrote: post #61
mrits wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

We were neutral, but it's always funny how many US-guys always bring up WW2. That was maybe the last time, the US did anything "good" for the world. But yeah, I think it's useless to argue with you.

> That was maybe the last time, the US did anything "good" for the world. But yeah, I think it's useless to argue with you.

This is a completely mad assessment. Haven't you noticed the massive issues with scientific, health, and social funding globally now the US taxpayer has stopped bankrolling it?

Re: Switzerland's Federal Government Is Replacing Microsoft on 3k Computers

#98

Post by embedding-shape »

glimshe wrote: post #89
Atariman wrote: post #41

As a Swiss, I'm happy they finally try it. It's only around 5% of all government machines, but at least it's a start and I wish them all the best! We have to get independent asap from the US, they never were our (or any other countries) "friends" and most likely never will be. OSS ftw!

Linux is largely financed by American corporations. Without that, Linux wouldn't be anywhere near what it is today.

How far you wanna go back to figure out what Linux would/wouldn't be without specific companies and individuals? You're taking "stealing credit for something" to a whole new level.

Re: Switzerland's Federal Government Is Replacing Microsoft on 3k Computers

#99

Post by philipallstar »

nephihaha wrote: post #96
pjc50 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> closing their borders to fleeing Jews. This is such a landmine topic, because most countries did this, including the UK and the US; see e.g. the MS St. Louis. This is why there are several "heroes of the resistance" that in modern parlance are "people smugglers", forging credentials and visas in order to help people escape. Today you see exactly the same hostile attitudes to non-white refugees of basically every wa…

Despite what Hollywood says, WW2 was more to do with German militarism and expansionism than the Jewish question. The Allies were certainly willing to use pro-Jewish sentiments and some Jewish troops, but it was never presented as the main issue.

I think Hollywood says exactly that. Most WW2 films are about war, not the Holocaust.

Re: Switzerland's Federal Government Is Replacing Microsoft on 3k Computers

#100

Post by philipallstar »

rich_sasha wrote: post #11

The real risk to MS here is when people take the plunge and see how much nicer a (well supported, well put together) Linux distro is, compared to Windows etc! Will they want to buy their next laptop at home with MSFT installed? Plus, if countries moving off Microsoft put a fraction of the savings into libre office product development, it might get an even more lopsided comparison!

I wouldn't assume that moving off Microsoft will save money, or not for a long time. All staff will need a lot of retraining.

Or: if Microsoft are very smart they'll have Office for Linux and a GPO connector to manage Linux devices (and divert logins via Entra) in the wings, so much less retraining will be required.

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