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Please don't rearrange our shoes when we turn up, paramedics in Japan urge

theguardian.com

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Re: Please don't rearrange our shoes when we turn up, paramedics in Japan urge

#121

Post by makeitdouble »

cromka wrote: post #111
swiftcoder wrote: post #74

It is mind blowing to me that the shoes-off-inside rule is so deeply entrenched that emergency responders remove their shoes at the front door

Yes, I think that it's a good example where politeness and respect ingrained in society can be taken a step too far. I don't want my rescuers waste 30-45s on taking shoes off and after I had a stroke and minutes decide whether or not I ended up with a permanent brain damage...

TBF getting shoes on and off is literally 2s.

There's photos in the article, those aren't dress shoes with laces to be done and undone, they're fit for the purpose.

Also in cases where it's really dire they'll just step in with shoes on, it's just extremely rare and it might actually be another team altogether, operating under a different protocol.

Re: Please don't rearrange our shoes when we turn up, paramedics in Japan urge

#122

Post by nottorp »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #110
bjelkeman-again wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the Nordics (SE, FI, NO, DK) it is pretty much the same. A large part of the year your shoes are a mess and you don’t want that indoors.

When I worked in Helsinki, it was quite common to see people do this in the office as well. Some people that were otherwise appropriately dressed (business casual) would be walking around on slippers. Always thought that was slightly funny. Very practical though. I had some rugged hiking boots that I wore in the winter there that definitely would come off when I got to work.

I've been in small offices where having slippers wasn't mandatory, but everyone brought them just because they were more comfortable. Also in one where taking your shoes off or using those medical plastic covers was mandatory (in spite of the work being IT).

Romania. Typing this at the office, wearing slippers :)

Re: Please don't rearrange our shoes when we turn up, paramedics in Japan urge

#123

Post by djeastm »

fakedang wrote: post #86
arjie wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was a child in India, I was taught (not by my parents, by the societal milieu I suppose) to not let the (soles of?) my feet touch a book or a bag that contains books of knowledge. In any case, the behavior is a strongly trained habit so I feel compelled to do it. I do not choose or or not choose to do it. It is close to an automatic behavior, something like wrinkling one’s nose at a bad smell or so on. I was n…

Most (literate, educated) Indians have been trained the same, and it has very little to do with religion. When you do accidentally step on a book though, each religion has their own format - Hindus touch the book then touch their head then chest in penance, Muslims lightly kiss the book or touch the book/bag and kiss their hand, Christians touch the book and cross themselves. This is something I've noticed is uniquel…

The behavior sounds like superstition. Is there a belief that something bad will happen if the ritual is not performed?

Re: Please don't rearrange our shoes when we turn up, paramedics in Japan urge

#124

Post by Cthulhu_ »

cannonpr wrote: post #11
shdon wrote: post #7

In Dutch culture it is far more common to keep shoes on literally everywhere, so perhaps I'm biased, but I would think that in an emergency where every second counts, these people can be forgiven for not adhering to the strictest etiquette? I'm not surprised the person last mentioned in the article, who suggests exactly that, got 800 likes on their comment. I am surprised that it even needed to be said. Now I'm sudde…

So, I can’t honestly personally understand taking your shoes off in an emergency, however I am sure they have gotten very efficient at it.. I can say that if they didn’t it would cause damage to the home, many Japanese homes, especially traditional but also in general just aren’t built to take shoes. Tatami mats, and even hinoki floors despite being “hard” for a softwood, is still a softwood, so some level of genuine…

Also in the Netherlands, doctors / nurses in my local hospital wear things like crocs and other slip-in type shoes - don't think paramedics do, just something I noticed.

Re: Please don't rearrange our shoes when we turn up, paramedics in Japan urge

#125

Post by tomasGiden »

fakedang wrote: post #86
arjie wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was a child in India, I was taught (not by my parents, by the societal milieu I suppose) to not let the (soles of?) my feet touch a book or a bag that contains books of knowledge. In any case, the behavior is a strongly trained habit so I feel compelled to do it. I do not choose or or not choose to do it. It is close to an automatic behavior, something like wrinkling one’s nose at a bad smell or so on. I was n…

Most (literate, educated) Indians have been trained the same, and it has very little to do with religion. When you do accidentally step on a book though, each religion has their own format - Hindus touch the book then touch their head then chest in penance, Muslims lightly kiss the book or touch the book/bag and kiss their hand, Christians touch the book and cross themselves. This is something I've noticed is uniquel…

I also try to teach my children to be careful with books but beating a child surely cannot be the the right way. If we adults strike children for them treating possessions badly, are we then not saying that they are less worthy of good treatment than possessions? That would be deeply humiliating to me.

And I highly doubt that, in general, 'whacking' children will make them grow up kinder more compassionate adults.

Re: Please don't rearrange our shoes when we turn up, paramedics in Japan urge

#126

Post by embedding-shape »

purpleidea wrote: post #98

In Canada, we wear steel-toe, steel-shank safety boots, and we're kind of required to keep them on. We surely give them a good clunk to get rid of mud or snow, particularly in the winter, and we try to wipe our feet as much as possible when it's not a dire emergency, but you called 911, so... your floor is going to get dirty. Might already have blood on it anyways.

Same, even in countries I live/lived where not taking off shoes indoors is borderline a social crime, paramedics, emergency services and even craftspeople/tradespeople would typically not take off their shoes when entering your home.

Personally I got so tired of it we got those "one-use blue shoe covers" that we tell them to wear before going in, but of course I don't think either of us would think about that if we called for emergency services.

Re: Please don't rearrange our shoes when we turn up, paramedics in Japan urge

#127

Post by rimliu »

adrian_b wrote: post #68
theonething wrote: post #12

tangential, but I don't understand why keeping your shoes on in your house is a thing. It's so unsanitary. The bottom of your shoes are in contact with things like the floor of public bathrooms, animal feces (when walking on grass), dirt, mud, etc. And it's so much more comfortable to be in your house barefoot, with socks or with slippers. So much cleaner. I'm disgusted when people try to walk in my house with their…

When I grew up a half of century ago in East Europe, keeping your shoes on when entering a house was still considered as an unacceptable behavior. However, later this changed, in good part because much of the population moved from bigger rural houses to smaller apartments in the cities. In a small apartment, there was not enough space to have at the entrance a big enough wardrobe with dedicated places for the visitor…

Nothing like that.

Re: Please don't rearrange our shoes when we turn up, paramedics in Japan urge

#128

Post by hbcdbff »

socalgal2 wrote: post #114
shdon wrote: post #7

In Dutch culture it is far more common to keep shoes on literally everywhere, so perhaps I'm biased, but I would think that in an emergency where every second counts, these people can be forgiven for not adhering to the strictest etiquette? I'm not surprised the person last mentioned in the article, who suggests exactly that, got 800 likes on their comment. I am surprised that it even needed to be said. Now I'm sudde…

Obviously, in an emergency, yea, keep them on. That said, > In Dutch culture it is far more common to keep shoes on literally everywhere It is in many cultures, including my own family's, but having gotten used to taking them off from living in Japan, I find it extremely strange taking them off is not more common. It feel similar to doctors refusing to wash their hands during surgery, though I get I'm not doing surge…

I also take my shoes and off and find it gross when people don’t.

That said, I don’t think it’s really rational. Our houses are full of bacteria and dirt one way or another anyway. It’s impossible to avoid that without having some kind of airlock equipped with a shower in your porch.

Re: Please don't rearrange our shoes when we turn up, paramedics in Japan urge

#129

Post by embedding-shape »

makeitdouble wrote: post #121
cromka wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I think that it's a good example where politeness and respect ingrained in society can be taken a step too far. I don't want my rescuers waste 30-45s on taking shoes off and after I had a stroke and minutes decide whether or not I ended up with a permanent brain damage...

TBF getting shoes on and off is literally 2s. There's photos in the article, those aren't dress shoes with laces to be done and undone, they're fit for the purpose. Also in cases where it's really dire they'll just step in with shoes on, it's just extremely rare and it might actually be another team altogether, operating under a different protocol.

> TBF getting shoes on and off is literally 2s.

What about when you're three people while carrying a person? According to the article, it can delay them by ~30 seconds and risk dislodging the oxygen mask, the linked video also demonstrates the difference: https://www.instagram.com/p/DbqGfGfox3f/

Might seem like a small difference, but add in a stressful situation with a person almost dying, maybe being in pain, and the emergency workers trying to keep calm while also suddenly not finding their shoes in the position they purposefully left them, and suddenly the difference might be much large and also impactful.

Re: Please don't rearrange our shoes when we turn up, paramedics in Japan urge

#130

Post by embedding-shape »

hbcdbff wrote: post #128
socalgal2 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously, in an emergency, yea, keep them on. That said, > In Dutch culture it is far more common to keep shoes on literally everywhere It is in many cultures, including my own family's, but having gotten used to taking them off from living in Japan, I find it extremely strange taking them off is not more common. It feel similar to doctors refusing to wash their hands during surgery, though I get I'm not doing surge…

I also take my shoes and off and find it gross when people don’t. That said, I don’t think it’s really rational. Our houses are full of bacteria and dirt one way or another anyway. It’s impossible to avoid that without having some kind of airlock equipped with a shower in your porch.

> That said, I don’t think it’s really rational. Our houses are full of bacteria and dirt one way or another anyway.

True, but I don't know about you, but we don't have literal rocks, sediment, dirt pee, or literal poop on our floors in our home, anywhere. But shoes do occasionally step on stuff like that no matter how small, and neither of those things I want inside of my house on the floor.

But you're right that there still is bacteria or dirt all over the place, no doubt. But still, I don't step on something slightly soft with my socks in the living room and then inspect my foot to find poop stuck to it, and I think I'm gonna continue to prefer this way.

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