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I'm a seeing-eye dog for a computer

claytonwramsey.com

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Re: I'm a seeing-eye dog for a computer

#41

Post by dwedge »

arjie wrote: post #34
dwedge wrote: post #27

> I used to argue with people on the internet, after about six replies, you realize that you’re speaking to someone incapable of thought He realises the current woe of things but doesn't realise he's been arguing with bot farms and teams of people hired just for this reason - to sow doom, arguments and engagement. Around 10 years ago I noticed this happening on trending topics of Twitter - it wasn't that the opponent…

Haha it’s just a foolish move made by those from the ‘90s. We all internalized a different lesson. The younger generations have learned to brush it off and stop responding. Even if the person is human, when you fail to move toward Aumann Agreement, there is no point in persisting. Us older ones are still fighting the last war. If only we explain it properly, maybe the bots will understand!

> If only we explain it properly, maybe the bots will understand!

I'm going to be thinking about this perfect summary of my frustration of the last 20 years all day

Re: I'm a seeing-eye dog for a computer

#42

Post by gambiting »

hliyan wrote: post #30
dwedge wrote: post #27

> I used to argue with people on the internet, after about six replies, you realize that you’re speaking to someone incapable of thought He realises the current woe of things but doesn't realise he's been arguing with bot farms and teams of people hired just for this reason - to sow doom, arguments and engagement. Around 10 years ago I noticed this happening on trending topics of Twitter - it wasn't that the opponent…

I've now completely stopped engaging with anyone on that platform that I can't reasonably traced back to a real person. If any non-real-name account says anything that remotely feels bad-faith in replies, I block them. Having been on the Internet since the mid 90's when it was the frontier, and everyone helped/trusted everyone else, the policy feels very wrong. But unfortunately Twitter has given no tools or alternat…

>>anyone on that platform that I can't reasonably traced back to a real person

Not sure why that makes any difference - I've had plenty of arguments on Facebook with people who are perfectly happy to spew racist and/or conspiratorial bullshit while having their full names, their holiday photos and photos of their children and/or grandchildren attached to their identity. The weird thing is that these people are 99/100 times incapable of actually having an argument, they either start insulting you straight away or say some variation of "if you don't like what I'm saying then leave" or actually majority of time "what does a foreigner like you know about this topic".

The real names policy has yielded zero of the promised effects imho.

Re: I'm a seeing-eye dog for a computer

#43

Post by skrebbel »

arjie wrote: post #34
dwedge wrote: post #27

> I used to argue with people on the internet, after about six replies, you realize that you’re speaking to someone incapable of thought He realises the current woe of things but doesn't realise he's been arguing with bot farms and teams of people hired just for this reason - to sow doom, arguments and engagement. Around 10 years ago I noticed this happening on trending topics of Twitter - it wasn't that the opponent…

Haha it’s just a foolish move made by those from the ‘90s. We all internalized a different lesson. The younger generations have learned to brush it off and stop responding. Even if the person is human, when you fail to move toward Aumann Agreement, there is no point in persisting. Us older ones are still fighting the last war. If only we explain it properly, maybe the bots will understand!

I googled Aumann Agreement and it’s all about agreeing about whether things are true/false/likely/unlikely.

I don’t understand your point at all in this context. What’s “Aumann Agreement” in the context of a discussion about values?

Re: I'm a seeing-eye dog for a computer

#44

Post by [deleted] »

smugglerFlynn wrote: post #37
hypfer wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It literally uses you as its organ. But it isn't. That's my point. I told the clanker "hey do that", and like the intern/junior it emulates, it eventually says "boss! Help! I can't do this alone". It is I who is in the driver seat.

If intern is making a breakfast, and boss is the one who suddenly runs to the grocery store because eggs are missing, is boss still the one in a driver’s seat? From the original goal point of view yes, as it was boss who has initiated whole breakfast procedure. But from an execution standpoint it is intern who gives its boss a job of a grocery store run. He could give same job to anyone else, boss as a persona is irr…

[deleted]

Re: I'm a seeing-eye dog for a computer

#45

Post by novok »

walrus01 wrote: post #35
hliyan wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've now completely stopped engaging with anyone on that platform that I can't reasonably traced back to a real person. If any non-real-name account says anything that remotely feels bad-faith in replies, I block them. Having been on the Internet since the mid 90's when it was the frontier, and everyone helped/trusted everyone else, the policy feels very wrong. But unfortunately Twitter has given no tools or alternat…

I have found that the only way to deal with this these days is basically to only use my time to discuss things with people in private, invitation only forums. HN is a rare exception for "I am pretty sure you all are not bots (yet)" and yet anonymous. Everything else that I care about is in private Signal groups or an equivalent of same with anywhere from 15 to 200 people, and adding any new member means they need to…

That feels like the intellectual equivalent of limiting your career opportunities within a small tiny villages vs. a large city. There is so much more in the city.

Re: I'm a seeing-eye dog for a computer

#46

Post by dwedge »

hypfer wrote: post #33
hliyan wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've now completely stopped engaging with anyone on that platform that I can't reasonably traced back to a real person. If any non-real-name account says anything that remotely feels bad-faith in replies, I block them. Having been on the Internet since the mid 90's when it was the frontier, and everyone helped/trusted everyone else, the policy feels very wrong. But unfortunately Twitter has given no tools or alternat…

Same. (I would love to say, but they still get me way too often) I can also highly encourage people to keep notes and do some basic OSINT. The effective internet is smaller than one might think, so that proves useful time and time again.

Can you elaborate on the OSINT suggestion? Do you mean on the people you engage with?

Re: I'm a seeing-eye dog for a computer

#47

Post by hypfer »

novok wrote: post #45
walrus01 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have found that the only way to deal with this these days is basically to only use my time to discuss things with people in private, invitation only forums. HN is a rare exception for "I am pretty sure you all are not bots (yet)" and yet anonymous. Everything else that I care about is in private Signal groups or an equivalent of same with anywhere from 15 to 200 people, and adding any new member means they need to…

That feels like the intellectual equivalent of limiting your career opportunities within a small tiny villages vs. a large city. There is so much more in the city.

Sounds just like gambling, honestly.

Which might be a winning strategy, but also might not be.

Re: I'm a seeing-eye dog for a computer

#49

Post by xboxnolifes »

dwedge wrote: post #27

> I used to argue with people on the internet, after about six replies, you realize that you’re speaking to someone incapable of thought He realises the current woe of things but doesn't realise he's been arguing with bot farms and teams of people hired just for this reason - to sow doom, arguments and engagement. Around 10 years ago I noticed this happening on trending topics of Twitter - it wasn't that the opponent…

I used to think that the people who could not apply any semblance of logical reasoning online were just bots or trolls, but then I started meeting them in real life.

Re: I'm a seeing-eye dog for a computer

#50

Post by dwedge »

gambiting wrote: post #42
hliyan wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've now completely stopped engaging with anyone on that platform that I can't reasonably traced back to a real person. If any non-real-name account says anything that remotely feels bad-faith in replies, I block them. Having been on the Internet since the mid 90's when it was the frontier, and everyone helped/trusted everyone else, the policy feels very wrong. But unfortunately Twitter has given no tools or alternat…

>>anyone on that platform that I can't reasonably traced back to a real person Not sure why that makes any difference - I've had plenty of arguments on Facebook with people who are perfectly happy to spew racist and/or conspiratorial bullshit while having their full names, their holiday photos and photos of their children and/or grandchildren attached to their identity. The weird thing is that these people are 99/100…

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