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An Alien Mind

openai.com

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Re: An Alien Mind

#331

Post by nearbuy »

IAmGraydon wrote: post #311
gertlabs wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The results we've been seeing internally on our physics and circuit design environments are expert-level and beyond-expert-level results from models that Astra completely outclasses across the board on our evaluation suite (Fable 5+/Opus 5/Grok 4.6 were all worthy of being called AGI in my opinion). That's hard tech that will translate to real product innovation. But you don't need any kind of insider information to…

I mean honestly, that's the problem. I'm actually not seeing the world changing. What specific advances in robotics, unsolved maths, and software have LLMs provided? What is the finished result that affects everyday life? In all categories, it's been hype with little actual real results. The robots are still doing the things they did before 2022. The maths are a handful of fairly insignificant proofs that have no sig…

There are several hundred thousand mathematicians producing hundreds of thousands of new results in math each year. Why can't most people name any human contributions to mathematics from the past decade? What is the finished result that affects everyday life? Do you consider all those human mathematicians to be useless?

Most of the biggest breakthroughs in mathematics, breakthroughs that win Fields Medals like sphere packing in dimensions 8 and 24, have no applications in everyday life. Probably the only new mathematics results that people notice affecting their daily lives are the ones that enabled AI.

Nevermind mathematicians. What about the millions of programmers? Are they all hype too because people pre-2023 were griping on hn that software is buggier than ever and people are still using the same operating systems as always? Why couldn't the 30 million human programmers make something better in the past decade?

You set your bar so high that all the world's human experts in math and programming combined would fail to meet it.

The top LLMs in 2024 were Sonnet 3.5 and GPT 4o. You couldn't have expected those much weaker models to be making breakthroughs in math. The models that are making breakthroughs haven't been around very long.

Re: An Alien Mind

#332

Post by bamboozled »

nearbuy wrote: post #331
IAmGraydon wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean honestly, that's the problem. I'm actually not seeing the world changing. What specific advances in robotics, unsolved maths, and software have LLMs provided? What is the finished result that affects everyday life? In all categories, it's been hype with little actual real results. The robots are still doing the things they did before 2022. The maths are a handful of fairly insignificant proofs that have no sig…

There are several hundred thousand mathematicians producing hundreds of thousands of new results in math each year. Why can't most people name any human contributions to mathematics from the past decade? What is the finished result that affects everyday life? Do you consider all those human mathematicians to be useless? Most of the biggest breakthroughs in mathematics, breakthroughs that win Fields Medals like sphere…

They asked for a specific example, you've still not provided one, please provide the example.

Re: An Alien Mind

#334

Post by himata4113 »

The entire point of this article is this message below: Currently I believe that no lab has solved alignment and monitoring to a sufficient degree to continue responsibly scaling at maximum speed for much longer. I expect and hope for voluntary slowdowns to become commonplace until shared safety bars are established. And I believe that international coordination on future AI development needs to become a top priority for governments around the world.

This is coming from a company with arguably one of the weakest safeguards against malicious use.

Re: An Alien Mind

#335

Post by jrmg »

I’m struggling here:

OpenAI’s primary bet here has been chain-of-thought monitoring (opens in a new window). It is based on an appealingly scalable idea: a lot of the model’s capability comes from a verbalized reasoning process (chain-of-thought). If we scale optimization on the outcomes of that process, but do not supervise the process itself, that chain-of-thought has no direct incentive in training to hide any misaligned ideas or objectives.

If we’re not supervising the process, but just the outcomes, doesn’t that do just the opposite of what he says? Give incentive to the model to hide misaligned ideas and objectives in the chain of thought that’s not being supervised?

…

When we shipped o1‑preview, we deliberately designed the product to hide the chain of thought , to protect it from supervision pressure in the long term2. In development since, we have strived to maintain the rule of not supervising the reasoning process. CoT monitoring became an extremely important tool for us in studying how our models generalize from their training distribution, allowing us to observe and analyze not only their actions but also their internal process.

Aren’t these two sentences in contradiction with each other?

Re: An Alien Mind

#336

Post by kraf »

nullbio wrote: post #301
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Collectively, humans aren't aligned, and don't build aligned systems. Humans have a concept of alignment, and multiple traditions, practices, and systems that aggressively oppose it. Why would AI be any different?

My opinion is that serious repercussions for lying would fix the world overnight. Everything bad stems from lying, it is the root of all evil. It creates distrust, fear, paranoia. It re-inforces bad ideas and groupthink. It creates delusions and delusional people. It makes weaker people, too. People don't get an opportunity to learn to deal with criticism. People don't get an accurate reflection of how others see the…

It'll learn how to not get caught lying.

Lying can unfortunately help you achieve goals very effectively, especially economical and political ones.

Re: An Alien Mind

#337

Post by nearbuy »

bamboozled wrote: post #332
nearbuy wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are several hundred thousand mathematicians producing hundreds of thousands of new results in math each year. Why can't most people name any human contributions to mathematics from the past decade? What is the finished result that affects everyday life? Do you consider all those human mathematicians to be useless? Most of the biggest breakthroughs in mathematics, breakthroughs that win Fields Medals like sphere…

They asked for a specific example, you've still not provided one, please provide the example.

Why?

1. I didn't say LLMs have made any breakthroughs in math, not because they haven't, but because it's irrelevant to my point. The parent comment is using the same argument academic research opponents have long used against research. The vast majority of research fails to meet their bar. How would your daily life be different if we had no humanities papers published since 2023? Or math?

2. You can google this in 10 seconds and see a dozen results in math. This is not a good-faith demand.

Re: An Alien Mind

#338

Post by abtinf »

IAmGraydon wrote: post #311
gertlabs wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The results we've been seeing internally on our physics and circuit design environments are expert-level and beyond-expert-level results from models that Astra completely outclasses across the board on our evaluation suite (Fable 5+/Opus 5/Grok 4.6 were all worthy of being called AGI in my opinion). That's hard tech that will translate to real product innovation. But you don't need any kind of insider information to…

I mean honestly, that's the problem. I'm actually not seeing the world changing. What specific advances in robotics, unsolved maths, and software have LLMs provided? What is the finished result that affects everyday life? In all categories, it's been hype with little actual real results. The robots are still doing the things they did before 2022. The maths are a handful of fairly insignificant proofs that have no sig…

Amazon’s chatbot processed a price adjustment the other day without forcing me to call or chat with a human agent.

Re: An Alien Mind

#339

Post by FridgeSeal »

alchemist1e9 wrote: post #176
dgellow wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I want to believe that humanity is trending towards a good outcome here All the trends so far are towards a nightmarish hyper-capitalist end game. None of the AI leadership is trustworthy, and they openly discuss how they are willing to sacrifice everything humans cherish to have a shot at reaching their envisioned utopia (which would be the most obvious dystopia for anyone else)

hyper-capitalism would mean hyper-growth and not a nightmare, at least that is what the historical data would suggest for the effect of capitalism on human quality of life. if you’ve been told otherwise then you’ve been lied to.

I have extraordinarily bad news for you about the state of the environment right now.

Re: An Alien Mind

#340

Post by jryle70 »

elboru wrote: post #318
_dark_matter_ wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so, painfully, childish. Humans have known for thousands of years that there is no objective truth. Every falsity can be bent and twisted until it is more true than the sun itself.

“Humans have known for thousands of years that there is no objective truth” Is that objectively true?

No it isn't true. I'm saying so. Is what I said objectively true?
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