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M-DISC – DVD/Blu-ray compatible discs that may last up to 1000 years

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91–100 of 105 posts

Re: M-DISC – DVD/Blu-ray compatible discs that may last up to 1000 years

#91
post #84

Verbatim, who owns M-Disc, doesn't even manufacture discs anymore. They just slap their brand on other peoples discs. The discs sold as M-Discs now are actually just MABL BD-R's. They used to have a 'stone' data layer. Now they use a titanium metal data layer. MABL discs were always designed to last for about 100 years, and are orders of magnitude cheaper. 100 years is long enough, and 1000 years was always a wild-as…

Kind of interesting how analog media is still the best archival media. Throw your data on a stone tablet it's going to last 10,000 years.

Information density tho'...

Re: M-DISC – DVD/Blu-ray compatible discs that may last up to 1000 years

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is said that cellulose film can achieve a 1000-year life expectancy if stored in specialized cold and dry storage environments. Oh and its a fire/explosion hazard

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1965_MGM_vault_fire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_National_Archives_vault_f... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Universal_Studios_fire Also related: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myspace#Music On March 18, 2019, it was revealed that Myspace had lost all of its user content from launch until 2015 in a botched server migration with no backup. Over 50 million songs and 12 years' wort…

If M-DISCs were caught in a fire, I don't think they are readable either.

Re: M-DISC – DVD/Blu-ray compatible discs that may last up to 1000 years

#93
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a 1000 years even if they don’t have the drives, as long as they still know roughly how it works maybe they will photograph it with a microscope and read the tracks in the M-Disc from that. Then they will have to decode it also of course.

Maybe. The question is why are we needing to read these disks in a thousand years. I would guess right now that the most likely case is information we care about is archived on modern formats such as hard drives, which are constantly being copied to different drives as the old ones go out and so in a thousand years they'll still have all the data in a much more accessible format than a very obsolete disk. If, instead…

> The question is why are we needing to read these disks in a thousand years. I would guess right now that the most likely case is information we care about is archived on modern formats such as hard drives, which are constantly being copied to different drives as the old ones go out and so in a thousand years they'll still have all the data in a much more accessible format than a very obsolete disk.

This is a short-sighted view. I wouldn't be surprised if 90% of the internet has disappeared, and a bunch of spotty bits of that disappeared history are sitting on a single disk somewhere. A huge amount of that information could be interesting and useful to someone for some reason, and it is almost lost now.

Surprised that these are only "1.5x to 3x" the price of regular blurays. Just a tiny bit lower and we could abandon regular blurays themselves, and stop using hard drives for static backups. Making these a standard could save a lot of that sparsely recorded data for the future.

I still can't get over the silent film massacre - so many hit movies by acclaimed directors simply don't exist; or the BBC decades long video wiping spree, or the dumping of the DuMont network archives into the East River. Our views of the past are completely distorted because of these events; people who were unbelievably famous and influential passed into obscurity because most of their work was trashed, wiped, or on the DuMont network.

No reason to assume that things worth keeping will be kept. The assumption actually leads to the inaction that leads to the death of the things.

> I don't think the technology to read those disks will exist either, even though in theory, yes, that could be done.

They're not in secret code (unless that was the intention.) If you had one you could figure out how to make a machine to read it.

> It would be a massive reverse engineering effort

It would be a moderately difficult reverse engineering effort.

Re: M-DISC – DVD/Blu-ray compatible discs that may last up to 1000 years

#95

Verbatim, who owns M-Disc, doesn't even manufacture discs anymore. They just slap their brand on other peoples discs. The discs sold as M-Discs now are actually just MABL BD-R's. They used to have a 'stone' data layer. Now they use a titanium metal data layer. MABL discs were always designed to last for about 100 years, and are orders of magnitude cheaper. 100 years is long enough, and 1000 years was always a wild-as…

I'm wondering about which device I'd use in about 100 years, via which chain of Quantumbolt adapter to Gizmoidics Nineblazeultra to Akashix. Or would I have something in which I'd put the media, and had it directly scanned by advanced beamforming arrays?

Re: M-DISC – DVD/Blu-ray compatible discs that may last up to 1000 years

#96

Verbatim, who owns M-Disc, doesn't even manufacture discs anymore. They just slap their brand on other peoples discs. The discs sold as M-Discs now are actually just MABL BD-R's. They used to have a 'stone' data layer. Now they use a titanium metal data layer. MABL discs were always designed to last for about 100 years, and are orders of magnitude cheaper. 100 years is long enough, and 1000 years was always a wild-as…

I buy the original Millenniata 'stone' DVDs from eBay[1]. They are only 4.7 gb though, not 25/100gb blue rays that verbatim sells.

[1] https://www.ebay.com/itm/261878887064

Re: M-DISC – DVD/Blu-ray compatible discs that may last up to 1000 years

#97
post #84

Verbatim, who owns M-Disc, doesn't even manufacture discs anymore. They just slap their brand on other peoples discs. The discs sold as M-Discs now are actually just MABL BD-R's. They used to have a 'stone' data layer. Now they use a titanium metal data layer. MABL discs were always designed to last for about 100 years, and are orders of magnitude cheaper. 100 years is long enough, and 1000 years was always a wild-as…

Kind of interesting how analog media is still the best archival media. Throw your data on a stone tablet it's going to last 10,000 years.

Analog: https://rosettaproject.org/disk/concept/

Re: M-DISC – DVD/Blu-ray compatible discs that may last up to 1000 years

#98
post #62
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the most realistic concern here is amazon scanning your backups. I totally get it. A lot of the reason for retaining total control over the storage medium is that what is being stored isn't strictly legal. You should locally encrypt 100% of the information you store on someone else's system with strong symmetric encryption. In fact, I think Amazon's legal team would quietly prefer that you do this. Dumping a…

I cant imagine many people are backing up movies/tv shows, certainly not ones readily available should a recovery be needed. I can understand more obscure shows but backing up something like The Odyssey would be a colossal waste of storage and money. (But yes - regardless of what it is, encrypt it)

Readily available isn't what it used to be, with optical media going extinct and licenses being in endless churn

Re: M-DISC – DVD/Blu-ray compatible discs that may last up to 1000 years

#99
post #98
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cant imagine many people are backing up movies/tv shows, certainly not ones readily available should a recovery be needed. I can understand more obscure shows but backing up something like The Odyssey would be a colossal waste of storage and money. (But yes - regardless of what it is, encrypt it)

Readily available isn't what it used to be, with optical media going extinct and licenses being in endless churn

I can assure you it is readily available online and always will be. And now that we've had confirmation you basically own nothing then it'll be more prominent than ever.

Re: M-DISC – DVD/Blu-ray compatible discs that may last up to 1000 years

#100
post #84

Verbatim, who owns M-Disc, doesn't even manufacture discs anymore. They just slap their brand on other peoples discs. The discs sold as M-Discs now are actually just MABL BD-R's. They used to have a 'stone' data layer. Now they use a titanium metal data layer. MABL discs were always designed to last for about 100 years, and are orders of magnitude cheaper. 100 years is long enough, and 1000 years was always a wild-as…

Kind of interesting how analog media is still the best archival media. Throw your data on a stone tablet it's going to last 10,000 years.

There is no fundamental difference between symbols inscribed on a stone tablet with a sharp tool versus symbols etched onto a reflective disc by a laser. In both cases you are recording symbolic information on a physical medium; they both record digital information.

The true difference between digital and “analogue” lies in the nature of the representation and interpretation of information, that is whether they are descriptions (symbolic) or analogies. The shape of the groove on a phonograph record is an analogy of a sound wave signal. The pits in a compact disc represent numerals which give a description of the amplitude of a signal at a given point in time.

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