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Asahi Linux on M3

asahilinux.org

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Re: Asahi Linux on M3

#131

Post by gjvc »

oblio wrote: post #126
smith7018 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure but that's not really their point. They're not saying that Linux is a joke nor that it's useless; they're saying that the amount of people installing Linux on their Macs is so small that it wouldn't make financial sense for Apple to support them. Knowing how much an engineer gets paid, even staffing a small team to supporting Linux would cost Apple a couple million each year. That's not even taking support into…

That's not why they're avoiding it, though. They're avoiding it because installing Linux (or Windows, even), would actually decrease their income. I doubt people running Windows on Intel Macs were avid Apple Music subscribers.

would actually decrease their income per device, but they would still make money on the device.

or are you saying apple devices are loss-leader prior the app store revenue ?

that's the model taken to the extreme

Re: Asahi Linux on M3

#132

Post by simcop2387 »

xrd wrote: post #105
brundolf wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asahi on previous M-series chips supports the GPU, they just don't support it on M3 yet (they have to reverse-engineer the GPU to write the driver) More info: https://alyssarosenzweig.ca/blog/asahi-gpu-part-n.html

Oh, so an M2 will support GPU usage? Can you run CoreML and unsloth models in the same way you would use them on regular MacOS? Are there benefits to using Linux/Asahi for running models on Apple hardware?

You wouldnt be using coreml since thats apples software, but likely vulkan versions of llama.cpp or pytorch or what have you. How well that works at the moment i dont know

Re: Asahi Linux on M3

#133

Post by izacus »

GeekyBear wrote: post #81
izacus wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don’t think many people realize how easily Apple could have locked down the laptop to be able to not run any alternate OS at all and the number of lost sales would be so negligibly small as to not matter. They chose to leave it open. Oh please - Apple provided a full suite of Bootcamp drivers for their hardware just a couple of years ago, not locking you out is not a big heroic move you're trying to picture here.

In the beginning, Bootcamp had a real job. It allowed a machine running Intel's EFI firmware (as Intel Macs have always done) to boot an OS that only understood the older BIOS standard. Once Microsoft and the various PC vendors started supporting UEFI directly, Bootcamp was just a bundle of existing Windows drivers from the component vendors. If you put a specific Broadcom Wi-Fi chip in the Mac, Bootcamp included Bro…

And Linux support on M Macs would also have a "real job", what is your point exactly?

I find it so bizarre that some of you here are defending a megacorporation that could have easily afforded to provide drivers for Linux Kernel like their competitors do.

You're clapping for free volunteers to spend hundreds of hours reverse engineering Thunderbolt controllers when companies like Intel outright contribute them.

Re: Asahi Linux on M3

#134

Post by eikenberry »

xrd wrote: post #97

I'm not sure I understand the target user for Asahi. Is this someone that only wants to run Linux and wants to use their GPU on Linux? Seems like this is not the case, yet. Or, is this for someone that wants to dual boot and use Linux sometimes, and then reboot into MacOS when they want to use the GPU?

I think it is more the technical challenge of doing it that drives development than any target users.

Re: Asahi Linux on M3

#135

Post by numpad0 »

bigyabai wrote: post #56
Krish1577 wrote: post #2

Reverse-engineering Apple's custom silicon is basically the modern equivalent of repairing a spaceship while it's actively launching. Incredible work by the Asahi team!

Makes you wonder who's choice it was to launch a half-finished rocket. AMD and Intel's rockets sit on the launch pad with GPU/CPU drivers shipped for Linux before T-10.

macOS ships with full working drivers for everything. They're unfortunately not under AGPLv3.

Re: Asahi Linux on M3

#136

Post by MBCook »

bigyabai wrote: post #56
Krish1577 wrote: post #2

Reverse-engineering Apple's custom silicon is basically the modern equivalent of repairing a spaceship while it's actively launching. Incredible work by the Asahi team!

Makes you wonder who's choice it was to launch a half-finished rocket. AMD and Intel's rockets sit on the launch pad with GPU/CPU drivers shipped for Linux before T-10.

They publish documentation because they need OEMs to be willing to support their products.

Apple doesn’t. Apple consumes it, so Apple always has a customer.

Re: Asahi Linux on M3

#137

Post by MBCook »

bigyabai wrote: post #44
alt227 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair this is the thing that is likely to be the most difficult due to it being closed proprietary apple/intel tech.

Intel and AMD both support Thunderbolt on Linux, it's not impossible per-se.

And it’s not. They’re working on it, I just saw a post about it today.

But Intel and AMD post documents to explain how to use their hardware. Apple doesn’t. So it’s not an equivalent effort by any stretch.

Re: Asahi Linux on M3

#138

Post by Dylan16807 »

biorach wrote: post #79
bel8 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless, saying it would be too much effort for Apple is laughable at best. Even more so when Apple used to release such docs in the past when it was much less financially capable. They just don't care.

> Regardless, saying it would be too much effort for Apple That's not what they said. Please don't misrepresent > is laughabe And this disparaging language about commenters is not OK. Please stop.

The implication of saying it's a "huge effort" is that the effort is too much. You're nitpicking at this point and the flat refusal is just as much a problem as tossing out "laughable" in a sentence focused on calling Apple bad.

Re: Asahi Linux on M3

#139

Post by lokar »

izacus wrote: post #133
GeekyBear wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the beginning, Bootcamp had a real job. It allowed a machine running Intel's EFI firmware (as Intel Macs have always done) to boot an OS that only understood the older BIOS standard. Once Microsoft and the various PC vendors started supporting UEFI directly, Bootcamp was just a bundle of existing Windows drivers from the component vendors. If you put a specific Broadcom Wi-Fi chip in the Mac, Bootcamp included Bro…

And Linux support on M Macs would also have a "real job", what is your point exactly? I find it so bizarre that some of you here are defending a megacorporation that could have easily afforded to provide drivers for Linux Kernel like their competitors do. You're clapping for free volunteers to spend hundreds of hours reverse engineering Thunderbolt controllers when companies like Intel outright contribute them.

The reverse of that argument is why are you applauding Intel for doing something they had to do well in order to get any sales?
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