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Isar Aerospace reaches orbit and deploys payloads on second flight

isaraerospace.com

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Re: Isar Aerospace reaches orbit and deploys payloads on second flight

#131

Post by mike_hearn »

dgellow wrote: post #30
mike_hearn wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it was taught that EU is nothing like the US, as we're all individual countries and everyone wants to remain as such It's written into the treaties that this will not be so. The goal of the EU is "ever closer union" and the people at the top of it routinely talk about a federal Europe in which the individual states disappear.

Individual states do not disappear in a more federal Europe. Otherwise that wouldn’t be a confederation… It’s about delegating some authority and decision making to a common entity, but each nation state stays sovereign. I don’t understand how people are confused about that concept, there are lots of federated entities in the world, with various level of delegation to the federal level. And that works well. The disti…

You can't be sovereign and also subservient to another power. That's a contradiction! Texas is not sovereign, for example.

The people who call themselves federalists don't actually want a federation. They just use the name because it sounds more acceptable. Read Spinelli's Draft Treaty from 1984 or his Ventotene Manifesto. These documents don't describe the creation of a federation but rather the creation of a unitary state.

Re: Isar Aerospace reaches orbit and deploys payloads on second flight

#132

Post by mike_hearn »

embedding-shape wrote: post #34
mike_hearn wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it was taught that EU is nothing like the US, as we're all individual countries and everyone wants to remain as such It's written into the treaties that this will not be so. The goal of the EU is "ever closer union" and the people at the top of it routinely talk about a federal Europe in which the individual states disappear.

> It's written into the treaties that this will not be so. What exact treaty are you talking about, and what does it verbatim say? I've heard this so many times before, yet no one is able to link to concretely what they refer to. No texts I've seen has called for the dissolution of nation states in the EU or any of the other political structures.

The goal of ever closer union appears in both the Maastricht Treaty and the Treaty of Rome.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL...

>RESOLVED to continue the process of creating an ever closer union among the peoples of Europe, in which decisions are taken as closely as possible to the citizen in accordance with the principle of subsidiarity,

Now you might say, ah! This text also says that decisions must be taken as closely as possible to the citizens. Yes, the treaties do say that, the EU just doesn't do it. Of course it makes no sense, the claim about subsidiarity is in direct contradiction to the first part of the sentence, you can't be both in an ever-tightening political union and also have decisions made by local governments. In practice the first part is chased and the second part is ignored. EU decisions are taken in Brussels - far away from the average citizen - even about many issues that don't need to be decided there.

If you want to understand the real origins of the EU and where it's going, you need to read the Ventotene Manifesto. Written during WW2 by a group of imprisoned Italian communists led by Altiero Spinelli, it calls explicitly for a communist revolution that would unite all of Europe. Spinelli's document can be found here:

https://federalists.eu/federalist-library/the-ventotene-mani...

It says things like, "In order to respond to our needs, the European revolution must be socialist" and "By this dictatorship of the revolutionary party a new State will be formed, and around this State new, genuine democracy will grow". It goes on like that in quite some detail.

Although the document is insane Spinelli went on to be one of the founding architects of the EU. He is officially credited as a "pioneer of the EU":

https://european-union.europa.eu/principles-countries-histor...

and a "founding father of the EU":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founding_fathers_of_the_Europe...

He became one of the first members of the European Commission and was a member of the European Parliament. He was also one of the primary authors of the "Draft Treaty for establishment of the European Union" in 1984 that directly led to the creation of the modern EU itself via the Maastricht Treaty, which imported a lot of its ideas. The Draft Treaty can be found here:

https://federalists.eu/federalist-library/draft-treaty-estab...

It not only mentions the goal of ever closer union (with no mention of subsidiarity), but mandates it legally in Article 11, which defines "cooperation" to mean control by member states and "common action" to mean things directly controlled by the EU institutions. It then states in plain English that a topic may be moved from cooperation to common action, but never in reverse. It also states that powers go through this one way transfer to the EU based only on a vote of the EU Parliament, with member state parliaments themselves getting no say in it.

So the idea of abolishing national states has always been very visible among the EU's "founding fathers".

Re: Isar Aerospace reaches orbit and deploys payloads on second flight

#133

Post by mpweiher »

teiferer wrote: post #128
nolok wrote: post #4

Congratulation and great news ! For Europe, but also the world, space access is one of those frontiers we can (and I believe will) see truly opened in my lifetime and I find that truly awesome. Interestingly there still seems to be a difference in approach between "few launch, expected to go well" in europe and "many launch as trial and error" in the US, with other countries falling somewhere in between those two lim…

> > Europe now has sovereign access to space. > I understand what is meant here, and of course said company need to push that forward, but French Guyana is full french territory, it's not even a foreign territory. Does French Guyana have a usable space rocket? Cause if not then you are completely missing the point of what "space access" means here. It's not about a spot from where to start the rockets. It's about bei…

> Does French Guyana have a usable space rocket?

Yes: the Ariane rockets. "French Guyana" is part of France, which is part of the EU.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Guiana

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariane_(rocket_family)

Re: Isar Aerospace reaches orbit and deploys payloads on second flight

#134

Post by nolok »

dylan604 wrote: post #99
nolok wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, the moment we allowed MBDA to put some american component in our (French) missiles made with european allies (Scalp, Meteor), the US blocked our sales to Egypt because they wanted to sell their own instead, using ITAR, forcing us to fix it for the french version. The US has repeatedly proven that ITAR is for them as much of a military thing as it is an economic one, and that they're willing to use it against…

> The US has repeatedly proven that ITAR is for them as much of a military thing as it is an economic one, and that they're willing to use it against allies. If we refuse to learn that lesson, it's on us not them. I'm actually surprised anyone ever thought it was not a military thing.

Maybe I phrased it wrong, it's not my native language ? I meant it "it's not just a military restriction thing when they think there is military danger, it's an economic thing for when they can take advantage over a seller, and who the buyer is doesn't even matter".

Re: Isar Aerospace reaches orbit and deploys payloads on second flight

#135

Post by Danox »

morkalork wrote: post #105

What the fuck is wrong with Americans? There's so many ignorant, racist, and all around shit takes in this thread.

Many Americans are in the middle of the death throes of empire the world is moving on and as an American. That’s fine with me Lake Ontario forever ha.ha.ha…

Re: Isar Aerospace reaches orbit and deploys payloads on second flight

#136

Post by [deleted] »

yostrovs wrote: post #82
cdavid wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The population rejected more autonomy with a large majority (>70 %) in the last referundum.

It's not France. The locals like that France gives them goodies so they vote for more goodies and France gives more goodies so they vote accordingly.

[deleted]

Re: Isar Aerospace reaches orbit and deploys payloads on second flight

#137

Post by mpweiher »

yostrovs wrote: post #82
cdavid wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The population rejected more autonomy with a large majority (>70 %) in the last referundum.

It's not France. The locals like that France gives them goodies so they vote for more goodies and France gives more goodies so they vote accordingly.

So you are opposed to self-determination. Glad we cleared that up.

Who then gets to decide? You?

Re: Isar Aerospace reaches orbit and deploys payloads on second flight

#138

Post by inemesitaffia »

nolok wrote: post #4

Congratulation and great news ! For Europe, but also the world, space access is one of those frontiers we can (and I believe will) see truly opened in my lifetime and I find that truly awesome. Interestingly there still seems to be a difference in approach between "few launch, expected to go well" in europe and "many launch as trial and error" in the US, with other countries falling somewhere in between those two lim…

>massive subsidies

Misinformation

Re: Isar Aerospace reaches orbit and deploys payloads on second flight

#139

Post by computerdork »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #46
nolok wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but although the crazies in charge have been very negative toward our continent and my country (Frace), they've also steered very clear away from any seizing claim about any of our territory, despite going against anyone from Canada to Denmark to Spain to UK, to ... Deep down, we're an annoyingly arrogant little country with delusions of grandeur salivating at the thought to prove to our EU neighbors how strong…

> Deep down, we're an annoyingly arrogant little country with delusions of grandeur ... The problem is France used to be the world's superpower, with an economy bigger than the one of the UK. Literally number one. Then the monarchy fell and all it took was a mere 15 years for that little arrogant man that Napoleon was to get its arse (and France's arse) handed to him in Waterloo in 1815. 15 years to throw away centur…

Am no expert at French history, but this feels like cherry-picking to me of what happened to France. From what I read, one of the biggest reasons (besides the defeat at Waterloo) for the downfall of France to Britain was that in the 1700’s, France had wild speculation in the colonies in the Americas, specifically, in the Mississippi Company. When the bubble started collapsing, the Prime Minister at the time (John Law), put a lot of the French treasury into trying to support that bubble, but it collapsed anyway. Now the French government was relatively cash poor, which eventually led to losing a lot of its colonies to Britain, a great deal of unrest in France and the French Revolution.

And I am no history expert, so am unsure of this myself, but in my humble opinion, the idea that monarchy is why France lost its place in the world doesn’t seem like a major factor.

Re: Isar Aerospace reaches orbit and deploys payloads on second flight

#140

Post by tsimionescu »

gagan2020 wrote: post #118
tsimionescu wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We still have a good few thousand years until we make the Earth anywhere close to as inhospitable as the second best planet in the Solar System - and probably much more than that before we run out of space on Earth. It makes far more sense to colonize the Arctic, the Gobi desert, the peaks of the tallest mountains, and similar places here on Earth before even contemplating the colonization of Mars. Let's first have a…

> space on Earth. I have different take on this. We already shown significant decline in Fertility rate of whole world. Its right now 2.2 against nearly 5 in 1950s till 1970. 2.1 is replacement only. So, we are sorted there from occupying Glaciers,Mountains, etc. Moreover, Average age of many countries are increasing. That might need support in near future. Migration is filling up that gap in Western world. As per cu…

People aren't making more children because they largely can't afford to, either in actual resources, or in time spent. And, unlike in a rural community, children don't have any "return on investment" - plus, you generally have to raise them alone even when they're no longer toddlers, rather than relying on an entire community to do it together.

There's no great mystery, and a colony on Mars will not change this even one iota.

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