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Ask HN: Resources to get good at soldering?

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Re: Ask HN: Resources to get good at soldering?

#161

Post by sandreas »

xandrius wrote: post #139
sandreas wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FNIRSI 2C53T for more serious work ZEEWEII DSO154Pro to go as cheap as possible for something that is roughly useful

And in between? Also what would I really need it for? I mainly do ESP circuits and stuff like that, would I ever need anything other than a multimeter if your opinion?

As already been said, an Oscilloscope is for more professional work. As an example you can take a look at the iPod Remote Protocol (https://tinymicros.com/wiki/Apple_iPod_Remote_Protocol) or watch Jeff Geerlings video about the device (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRBT0N67YFA)

In general you probably don't ever need one, if you're not too serious into electronics - that is why I put one in the "more advanced" listing.

Re: Ask HN: Resources to get good at soldering?

#162

Post by akiselev »

elcritch wrote: post #152
sdcfgy wrote: post #66

Find some trash and practice removing parts and soldering them back on first. Not mentioned here yet but the majority of early soldering attempt failures mostly come from crap irons and crap solder not human issues. You need a decent quality temperature controlled iron and decent quality solder, preferably flux cored if you're doing repairs. Here, I have a second hand Metcal iron which cost less than the much recomme…

Metcal’s are amazing! They use a high mghz signal to measure the tip temperature using impedance measurements IIRC. Then they control the tip temperature using a feedback control loop. Humans suck in comparison for heat control. Trying to use a Hakko afterwards will make you want to curse in my humble opinion.

> They use a high mghz signal to measure the tip temperature using impedance measurements IIRC. Then they control the tip temperature using a feedback control loop.

That's not how Metcal fixed temp induction soldering irons work. They don't have a control loop, which is what makes them so much better than other soldering irons.

They exploit the Curie temperature [1] of some alloys, in which the metal loses its inductive properties when it hits a certain temperature. A Metcal power supply pumps a simple 13.56 Mhz signal into the tip which heats it up and when it reaches its Curie temperature, it just stops heating. Since the signal is constant, whenever the temperature of the tip drops it just heats back up without any PID loop. The downside is that you have to switch tips (alloys) with a pair of pliers to change temperatures, but the upside is that there is no control loop delay.

It's also why their station are so reliable. There's basically no "modern" electronics in them and the worst you have to do to fix them is replace an electrolytic capacitor. I've got a power supply manufactured in the late 90s that's still as good as new and like you said, going back to a Hakko or any other soldering iron is downright painful.

(Side note to anyone who cares: when the patents expired, a couple of Metcal engineers left to form Thermaltronics, which sells cheaper stations and Metcal-compatible tips)

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curie_temperature

Re: Ask HN: Resources to get good at soldering?

#163

Post by cinntaile »

awakeasleep wrote: post #124
eimrine wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of those is not a must. For me one of the most important thing is Rose alloy and some copper braid for desoldering. Also rosin is one of the best flux available because of guaranteed no corrosion. Also it is best to have not only copper soldering tip for good heat transfer but iron soldering tip as well because it will not get bent when agressively digging some crap.

The fume extractor is completely superfluous to the hobbyist. Its important to people with occupational exposure but as a hobbyist i cant imagine ever soldering enough to get good if i had to set up a fume extractor every time.

You have very simple fume extractors. I don't get why it would not be worth it just because you rarely do it. It's like wearing a respirator mask when using a grinder. Or ear muffs when drilling or sawing.

Re: Ask HN: Resources to get good at soldering?

#164

Post by jimnotgym »

drpixie wrote: post #155
jimnotgym wrote: post #75

Like all practical skills, practice! Soldering new is easier than repair. Get some dirt cheap ali express electronic kits and solder them up. Or get a load of components and some strip boards. Lead solder is much easier to use. Basic antex iron. Stand with sponge...dab of solder on the iron, wipe on sponge, push iron against both board and component, feed in solder, admire. For repair work, you want scrap boards real…

And be your own critic. Aim for great, not just ok. Find out what dry-joints look like. And too much solder. Then aim for a really nice job :)

Agreed. My second buy in soldering would be a second cheap high wattage iron, (edit: 80-100w) for soldering to the back of pots, switches and plugs.

But try it with your normal iron first and you will see why, rather than me just telling you.

Re: Ask HN: Resources to get good at soldering?

#165

Post by elcritch »

akiselev wrote: post #162
elcritch wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Metcal’s are amazing! They use a high mghz signal to measure the tip temperature using impedance measurements IIRC. Then they control the tip temperature using a feedback control loop. Humans suck in comparison for heat control. Trying to use a Hakko afterwards will make you want to curse in my humble opinion.

> They use a high mghz signal to measure the tip temperature using impedance measurements IIRC. Then they control the tip temperature using a feedback control loop. That's not how Metcal fixed temp induction soldering irons work. They don't have a control loop, which is what makes them so much better than other soldering irons. They exploit the Curie temperature [1] of some alloys, in which the metal loses its induct…

Thanks for filling in how the metcal's work! The 13.56 mghz signal made me figure an impedance measurement. Though as you say that explains why metcals are so bulletproof.

Side note: I found Thermaltronics stations to not be much cheaper than Metcal ones. At least for the lower end stations. Gotta love capitalism.

Re: Ask HN: Resources to get good at soldering?

#167

Post by [deleted] »

sandreas wrote: post #11

While soldering is not that hard, different tasks require different tools. Most of them can be from very cheap to very expensive. As a beginner I'd recommend the following: A small USB-C soldering iron supported by IronOS[1], e.g. Pinecil vor TS100 A solid stand with brass wool A KU soldering tip (looks a bit like a knife) for good heat transfer, too small tips are not good Thin ( No clean flux (not a pen) Isopropyl…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Resources to get good at soldering?

#168

Post by JohnFen »

butvacuum wrote: post #51
eternityforest wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

C245 clones seem to be the new current standard tip format, they're pretty nice. Not supported by any open third party firmware usually, but that's fine with me. One thing to watch out for is tip grounding, some cheap irons leak a few volts at micro to milliamp level power, relative to ground, which could matter if you solder very sensitive things that are grounded, which you probably don't. DIY fume extractors are h…

and breathing flux is a far larger concern than leaded solder. Physically getting them somewhere (eating while soldering, not washing hands, etc) is still a problem.

This. Just to expand on what you said a bit (since this is aimed at soldering newbies)...

The fumes from leaded solder don't themselves contain lead. The iron isn't hot enough to vaporize the metal itself. The fumes are from the flux, and breathing those can be problematic.

The immediate health risk in using leaded solder is all about touch and ingestion. Handling the solder gets lead on your fingers. That in and of itself is not a health risk unless you have a wound. But then if you touch food or mucous membranes (pick your nose, put your finger in your mouth, rub your eyes, etc.), you can get lead in your system. Not much, but once there, it doesn't leave, so accumulates over time.

You can mitigate those risks by wearing gloves, washing your hands immediately after you're done, and being rigorous about not eating or drinking at the bench and not touching other parts of your body. Non of that helps with the environmental problems of using lead, of course.

Re: Ask HN: Resources to get good at soldering?

#169

Post by mittensc »

awakeasleep wrote: post #124
eimrine wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of those is not a must. For me one of the most important thing is Rose alloy and some copper braid for desoldering. Also rosin is one of the best flux available because of guaranteed no corrosion. Also it is best to have not only copper soldering tip for good heat transfer but iron soldering tip as well because it will not get bent when agressively digging some crap.

The fume extractor is completely superfluous to the hobbyist. Its important to people with occupational exposure but as a hobbyist i cant imagine ever soldering enough to get good if i had to set up a fume extractor every time.

just use a computer fan next to whatever you are soldering, easy 5-10$

why breathe in the fumes or have them get into your eyes?

Re: Ask HN: Resources to get good at soldering?

#170

Post by theguysudo »

its easy just a some normal soldering iron usually costs less 2-3 dollar get flux and then soldering wire thats it for starter start building during the journey keep on upgrading based on need don't buy too much product as it will just create a urge to use them all while not been able to create onething properly as you learn and buy you'll understand how to use that specific product
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