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Asahi Linux on M3

asahilinux.org

31–40 of 358 posts

Re: Asahi Linux on M3

#31
post #25
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Linus Torvalds has any sway on what Apple does. Or do you mean John Ternus, the new CEO?

My phone autocorrected Ternus to Torvalds, what a catch!

> My phone autocorrected Termus to Torvalds, what a catch!

Kinda funny and definitely a word suggestion that will be locked in future code.

Re: Asahi Linux on M3

#32
post #25
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Linus Torvalds has any sway on what Apple does. Or do you mean John Ternus, the new CEO?

My phone autocorrected Ternus to Torvalds, what a catch!

Also it's "Ternus" with an "n"

Re: Asahi Linux on M3

#33
post #15

Why Apple does not at least provide the specs to the community? So much wasted effort when they can just share a pdf.

> Why Apple does not at least provide the specs to the community? Because then they'll have to compete with Linux, which opens them up to someone else making a cheaper computer that does the same stuff. I mean, I'm typing this on a junky Raptor Lake laptop I found on eBay for $220. Would I buy a Neo or MBP to replace it just to run the same software stack? Probably not. If you believe OS X is the best environment and…

Apple silicon is winning in performance and power consumption. It's not quite the same as the old Intel based generation, where they were more like premium/well built machines with good screens and hardware.

Now some people would like to use that top of the line Apple silicon but without MacOS that comes with it. I doubt this is a huge threat to apple but it's also not a huge market for them. From what I understand they are not actively impeding it but not actively helping it either.

I actually won a M2 laptop a while ago. I resold it, new in box still shrink wrapped because I did not care for MacOS, just a personal preference. People like me are a minority though.

Re: Asahi Linux on M3

#34

Why Apple does not at least provide the specs to the community? So much wasted effort when they can just share a pdf.

Aside from the "they have no incentive" answer, I imagine it's not so easy even if they wanted to. I suspect most of it won't be solely Apple's IP to share in the first place.

Re: Asahi Linux on M3

#35
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple's hypervisor.framework lets other OS instances run very very fast with the UTM app (open source on github, but i use the prebuilt version from the App Store). In my case i've used arm native linuxes (arch with various compositors, kde, gnome, fedora) all on M2, M2 Max, M5 and the experience is indistinguishable from native. MacOS is running too. I think hardcore graphics folks might want direct accelerator acce…

What is the purpose here? You are still stuck with a full blown MacOS running the system no? That is what Asahi tries to replace, not the other way around.

I'd recommend reading up on it, and perhaps trying it, because it's very useful.

For folks lamenting that the (awesome) Asahi efforts are challenged by reverse engineering of changes from M2 to M3, and so on, those changes vanish into the abstraction, but their benefits do not. That's why i switched from Asahi a couple years ago to UTM in apple silicon hypervisor mode.

https://developer.apple.com/documentation/hypervisor https://apps.apple.com/us/app/utm-virtual-machines

Re: Asahi Linux on M3

#36
post #33
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why Apple does not at least provide the specs to the community? Because then they'll have to compete with Linux, which opens them up to someone else making a cheaper computer that does the same stuff. I mean, I'm typing this on a junky Raptor Lake laptop I found on eBay for $220. Would I buy a Neo or MBP to replace it just to run the same software stack? Probably not. If you believe OS X is the best environment and…

Apple silicon is winning in performance and power consumption. It's not quite the same as the old Intel based generation, where they were more like premium/well built machines with good screens and hardware. Now some people would like to use that top of the line Apple silicon but without MacOS that comes with it. I doubt this is a huge threat to apple but it's also not a huge market for them. From what I understand t…

> It's not quite the same as the old Intel based generation, where they were more like premium/well built machines with good screens and hardware.

Not sure what generation you're talking about? Intel c. 18-25 years ago was wildly ahead on everything, much more so than Apple is now, in fact.[1] Apple Computer, quite famously, straight up abandoned their previous CPU architecture and started shipping Intel chips just to have something competitive in the market.

Again, everything goes in cycles in this industry and Apple's executive decisionmaking is 100% not placing bets on being the best forever just to make a bunch of Linux nerds happy.

[1] Process innovation mattered more at the time, where now we're hitting the scaling limit and chips are much more comparable.

Re: Asahi Linux on M3

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple's hypervisor.framework lets other OS instances run very very fast with the UTM app (open source on github, but i use the prebuilt version from the App Store). In my case i've used arm native linuxes (arch with various compositors, kde, gnome, fedora) all on M2, M2 Max, M5 and the experience is indistinguishable from native. MacOS is running too. I think hardcore graphics folks might want direct accelerator acce…

This misses the point entirely. What happens when apple inevitably discontinues support for this hardware.

i have no idea how you think apple silicon will discontinue support for itself.

the hypervisor framework documentation, that i linked above, is pretty clear; the linux builds for arm run extremely fast on apple silicon because hypervisor framework gives them hardware access, in some subsystems directly (memory mapping for example), in other systems through a shim (graphics hardware).

Re: Asahi Linux on M3

#38
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple's hypervisor.framework lets other OS instances run very very fast with the UTM app (open source on github, but i use the prebuilt version from the App Store). In my case i've used arm native linuxes (arch with various compositors, kde, gnome, fedora) all on M2, M2 Max, M5 and the experience is indistinguishable from native. MacOS is running too. I think hardcore graphics folks might want direct accelerator acce…

What is the purpose here? You are still stuck with a full blown MacOS running the system no? That is what Asahi tries to replace, not the other way around.

The purpose is to be able to run a decent Linux setup while also having MacOS for things. Not everyone is stuck on the anti-Apple train; some of us put software on all the platforms and thus using the hypervisor for this use case is quite comfortable. Disclaimer: personal experience - I too use UTM for highly productive things..

Re: Asahi Linux on M3

#39
post #9

Why Apple does not at least provide the specs to the community? So much wasted effort when they can just share a pdf.

So that you have to keep buying Macs every few years of course. If they gave you a way to install linux easily then you could use it far past their intended lifespan and wouldnt keep you locked into the apple ecosystem. They have proved time and time again that Apple hardware running anything but MacOS or iOS is something they will work very hard to stop you doing.

> past their intended lifespan

Thanks to the community, you can install macOS 15 (or older) on unsupported macs (as old as 18 years)

https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/MODELS.ht...

https://github.com/dortania/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher

Re: Asahi Linux on M3

#40
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They want control on the walled garden. When was the last time apple did anything for public unless forced by FCC. Now there is no hope since they can simply donate to trump.

Apple made some changes specifically for Asahi Linux to make it more robust. I believe it was Hector Martin who discussed it on Mastodon a while ago.

Discussed here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29591578
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