Live data from Hacker News

LLMs as a Cognitive Virus

arxiv.org

211–220 of 255 posts

Re: LLMs as a Cognitive Virus

#211
post #19

I love this line of thinking but the framing comes across to me as a bit inflammatory and uncharitable. Just about anything involved in the exchanged of ideas can be viewed as a virus! That is because, when viewed from an evolutionary biology perspective, ideas are the cognitive equivalent of genes (in fact, this is where the term meme comes from). There's a whole field, evolutionary memetics, dedicated to this. Cult…

The word meme appears in the paper, but only once (except for keywords and references).

I'm wondering why that is. Maybe they avoided using it because most people think it means something else. (I've certainly had a hard time talking about them, for this reason!)

Re: LLMs as a Cognitive Virus

#213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could require a phone call or mailing a form (in the post) I suppose.

Steam also had a pretty nice idea with the Steamdeck. You book appointments for a month in the e.g. 2 weeks prior, but those who get booked, and when they are booked, are randomly chosen amongst all people/times in those 2 weeks. And then you repeat the same process next month and so on.

Exactly. There are ways if you truly want to avoid that race. It just means the provider doesn’t care about bots

Re: LLMs as a Cognitive Virus

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ability atrophied because it was not practiced because there was no need.

Maybe as per usual, I think we all mostly remembered so many numbers thanks to pattern recognition. I'm old enough to have had a rotary phone in the basement growing that I used less than the various other keypad phones in the house. Whenever I was dialing (literally) a newly learned number on the rotary phone, I to think of what it looked like on touchpad first. Although very quickly I'd get to know the rotary patte…

Back in Socrates time, masters of rhetoric used https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Method_of_loci to memorize long texts without reading or writing. Something was definitely lost as something was gained.

Re: LLMs as a Cognitive Virus

#216
post #126

When a person spends time with other people, they outsource some of their thinking organically. That’s the efficiency gain in teams. Marriage leads to couples becoming two halves of a shared brain - one person takes on some cognitive load (finances, kids education, etc), while the other takes on another (maybe house issues, taxes, you name it). The load that can be carried with one brain is limited, so merging with o…

You're touching on utility.

We only ever bother learning something because it's interesting, or useful.

Things get muddier when you consider economy. Businesses exist to make money, and money is time.

AI is just another tool for business to manage time.

The 'dependency' and 'lock-in' are business leader issues honestly.

If you care about your craft, your skills, then you'll keep them sharp. You probably already enjoyed programming and it never felt like work.

On the other hand, if programming is just skills to pay the bills, then AI really can help you be more productive.

But then it's up to businesses to look ahead, manage their resources (human resources lol) and keep the business alive.

That means leaning on AI, simply become 'everyone else is doing it' and you have to compete for dollars.

Most people don't care how the sausage is made as long as it's presented well, and tastes great.

Re: LLMs as a Cognitive Virus

#217
post #207

IIRC Nietzsche's writing style changed because of the advent of typewriters. He didn't need his pen and so wrote more freely (at the apeed of thought). I think the general concepts are cognitive offloading and second order consequences; changes in human behavior due to the technology. Or just: use it or lose it. And maybe Jevons Paradox is relevant? E.g., when compact fluorescent light bulbs were introduced people go…

> He didn't need his pen and so wrote more freely (at the apeed of thought). Probably surprising for some, but it's possible (and pretty usual) to write at the speed of thought with a pen.

Your statement intrigues me, for I have always found it impossible. I dabbled in short-hand some years ago, and still couldn't keep up. I type very quickly and still can't always keep up.

How does this work, especially the "pretty usual" part? Or is this discrepancy due to ack of shared understanding around what the speed of thought is?

Re: LLMs as a Cognitive Virus

#218
I read the title and thought to myself, "The chance that this is a well-grounded, unbiased, and robust design is close to 0." So I started reading...

And having read it, what a terrible piece of science slop this is!

There is no observed adoption dataset used to establish that this mechanism explains LLM use better than alternatives such as usefulness, falling prices, workplace requirements, or independent discovery. The behavior they talk about could describe many socially adopted technologies or practices. Its applicability does not identify anything distinctively viral or harmful about LLMs.

The cognitive decline is assigned, not measured or independently derived. They calculate population competence by averaging those assigned scores across the groups. Consequently, moving people into lower-scoring groups lowers the average by construction. The dramatic fall from 1 to approximately 0.425 in their example is a model output conditional on those choices, not evidence of a 57% real-world cognitive decline.

They explicitly define competence as what the human can do when external support is withdrawn, excluding the total capability of the human/AI system. This cannot settle whether the technology improves overall performance or human welfare. And they provide no measurement protocol clarifying exactly which supports could be removed for a fair comparison (for instance, how does this compare to Wikipedia or electricity). They don’t do this because of an agenda, so allow me to assert something with just as little evidence as the authors provide for their conclusion: This is obvious bias, and they are designing the study to get the result they want, and they don’t care about scientific truth, just about getting their paper published and attracting attention.

And the “runaway” stuff is just not supported by the model. The language about equilibrium as a parameter changes is not automatically evidence of an imminent, rapid societal collapse! it is PURE conspiracy-level rhetoric. Just put two things in the same sentence and hope people think they are related. This is misleading language at best, and willful manipulation at worst.

This is a BASIC failure of the minimal requirement for something to be called scientific. If there had been even a trace of a genuine attempt at Popperian falsification, the current research design would never have gotten past review. This is cargo cult science, it LOOKS like scientific research, but it’s not even close to scientific.

EVERYTHING I hate about modern research on full display! And I am losing respect for the HN community more and more, because only terrible studies with sensationalist claims and titles get attention. This is tabloid-level quality, just with a direct link to the article instead of a dumbed-down intermediate write-up. If anybody read the actual paper, this would not get posted ANYWHERE. But “LLMs are a cognitive virus” is what gets posted.....

Re: LLMs as a Cognitive Virus

#219
post #64

"If men learn this [writing], it will implant forgetfulness in their souls; they will cease to exercise memory because they rely on that which is written, calling things to remembrance no longer from within themselves, but by means of external marks." -Socrates

He wasn't wrong.

Re: LLMs as a Cognitive Virus

#220
I think most of the comments are talking about the some "virus" but the actual valuable part of the paper is about making choices when interacting with LLMs in such a way that abilities are reversable. That you are still able to do those things without LLMs. And that society and institutions help to preserve this ability by encouraging ways to do things with and without LLMs.
Post reply on HN