Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil • Hacker News Board

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#321

Post by qwytw » Sun, Sep 06, 2026, 8:15 AM UTC

drysine wrote: post #291

kibwen wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does it mean that? When the US government funded SpaceX, it was motivated in no small degree by a desire to not be permanently reliant on a geopolitical wildcard (Russia) for getting astronauts into orbit. Now that the US itself has become a geopolitical wildcard, savvy countries know that they need to seek out alternatives to SpaceX under more stable regimes.

>geopolitical wildcard How is Russia a wildcard? What unexpected thing do you think Russia has done?

Authoritarian dictatorships will always behave in seemingly irrational ways (from the perspective of sane politicians). Dictators will always put their personal ambition and "career" first before their country's interests.

If Russia behaved rationally they would have made a deal with Ukraine (decades ago) that protected the rights of the Russian minorities in Ukraine and continued massively profiting from gas and oil exports into Europe.

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#322

Post by flohofwoe » Sun, Sep 06, 2026, 8:16 AM UTC

generuso wrote: post #236

godwinson__4-8 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes a good thing to point out, however the American initiative was more successful, was it not? Largely because raw numbers aside, most of the top talent wanted to avoid the Soviets and thus the US was the only logical option. That is, part of what made the American job on this easier is top German talent anticipated some "Operation Osoaviakhim" (or worse) scenario and thus sought out the US as the only way to get ou…

USA got the cream of the crop of the managers of the German missile program, while the USSR got the workers, who actually did the work with their hands and built the parts for the rockets. (One exception was Helmut Gröttrup, the head of the V-2’s guidance and telemetry systems.) In fact, after the war the USSR has briefly reconstituted the manufacturing of V-2 in Germany, employing thousands of people, before transpl…

> USA got the cream of the crop of the managers of the German missile program, while the USSR got the workers

That's a bit oversimplified. The Russians got quite a few important scientists and engineers in other areas (aircraft design, nuclear physics, electronics, radar, optics), they just didn't make as good use of them as the US (e.g. the 'American Germans' essentially won the space race for the US).

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#323

Post by ButlerianJihad » Sun, Sep 06, 2026, 8:22 AM UTC

fsh wrote: post #295

ButlerianJihad wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The selection of launch site takes the orbital inclination into account. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun-synchronous_orbit The "Onward and Upward" cube sats were deployed to Sun-synchronous orbits, with a roughly polar inclination. Similarly, launches from USSF Base Vandenberg take a southerly trajectory, so it can be used for orbits like that. Rocket launches from continental Europe have been challenging because o…

You are still ~500 m/s short compared to launching on an equatorial orbit from the equator.

Velocity is a vector, not simply a rate. Launches and orbits are three-dimensional.

What would be a great technological achievement would be launching from French Guiana (5.2° N) and then making a plane-change maneuver to achieve a polar orbit (90° inclination). All that bonus eastward velocity from the Earth's rotation would turn into a penalty they'd need to compensate for no reason, when they had a spaceport more suitable for that polar inclination.

Try this related concept: https://youtu.be/sod3ofdUYTw?si=U7dz_LcRQ0M44tAU

And the spherical cow jumps frictionlessly over the Moon!

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#324

Post by sampullman » Sun, Sep 06, 2026, 8:24 AM UTC

peterfirefly wrote: post #293

panick21_ wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah the world piece like all the wars in the middle east, Vietnam, proxy conflicts all over the world and so on and so on. I'm not blaming the US for all of these wars but they also didn't prevent them. And the US did overthrow many democracies and often made things much worse, Iran being a great example, but there are many others. I could go on. Peace in Europe was maintained mostly by people in democracies general…

> Vietnam The US was actually on the right side in that one (just like in Korea). The Communists were not exactly the good guys and their "agricultural and personnel reforms" lead to drastically reduced food production and starvation and death. Blame the US for real things instead, such as supporting the wrong side in Afghanistan in the '80s or ensuring the survival of the Soviet Union in the '40s.

It's not so simple, the rampant corruption under Ngô Đình Diệm, misappropriation of aid, etc. shouldn't just be swept under the rug. Hindsight says remaining capitalist probably would have been better for the average person, but it wasn't so obvious at the time.

Johnson was a warmonger, exaggerating (or possibly faking) the Gulf of Tonkin engagements to justify full escalation was a crime that led to the death of 60,000 Americans, hundreds of thousands more with PTSD, and 2 million+ murdered Vietnamese civilians. Not to mention hundreds of thousands of birth defects caused by agent orange and the still ongoing effort to clean up dioxins from the environment.

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#325

Post by bahmboo » Sun, Sep 06, 2026, 8:24 AM UTC

peterfirefly wrote: post #300

bahmboo wrote: post #281

FYI Norway is not in the EU. Whether they are European is a matter of perspective and I'm not touching that subject any further! Deutschland is in the EU.

Norway is as close as you can get without formally being a member. It's not just the EEA, it's also a member of essentially all EU programs that aren't closed off for non-member states. That Norway is European is not a matter of perspective.

Do you know any Norwegians? I don't have an opinion but many of my Norwegian relatives think the European thing is not just terminology and is a label from outside. Swedes and Fins too. [edit: I changed a fair bit of wording in the first few minutes of the post]

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#326

Post by 9dev » Sun, Sep 06, 2026, 8:28 AM UTC

gspr wrote: post #298

vladms wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While in the current case I agree it is the path that should be taken, ideally I would prefer efficient relations, where people cooperate rather than having to duplicate everything because they don't trust their neighbor (should I make my bread because the baker might decide to poison me?!). But having educated people everywhere is hard, so some people, because they don't get how some stuff works, they try to abuse f…

Ideally, yes. But when the baker is running around with a red hat renaming lakes, you have to start kneading if you have any sense.

It’s frustrating to share a planet with poison-pouring bakers and other primates, really, when you see what humanity could be

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#327

Post by bahmboo » Sun, Sep 06, 2026, 8:29 AM UTC

flohofwoe wrote: post #318

bahmboo wrote: post #281

FYI Norway is not in the EU. Whether they are European is a matter of perspective and I'm not touching that subject any further! Deutschland is in the EU.

> Whether they are European is a matter of perspective What? Scandinavia isn't part of Europe now? The "EU" is an organization, "Europe" is a continent. "European" includes everybody living in Europe (and yes, that even includes the Brits and most Russians).

I shouldn't have to explain this stuff. The Nordic countries are exceptionalist in my understanding from talking to them. It's an easy search to go down this rabbit hole. It's a little different from Catalan wanting to be independent but still European. This is not my area of knowledge I have just been exposed multiple times first hand. Where are my scando fin buddies to chime in? Lulz

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#328

Post by bahmboo » Sun, Sep 06, 2026, 8:39 AM UTC

flohofwoe wrote: post #318

bahmboo wrote: post #281

FYI Norway is not in the EU. Whether they are European is a matter of perspective and I'm not touching that subject any further! Deutschland is in the EU.

> Whether they are European is a matter of perspective What? Scandinavia isn't part of Europe now? The "EU" is an organization, "Europe" is a continent. "European" includes everybody living in Europe (and yes, that even includes the Brits and most Russians).

Looking at a map Norway is on the same continent as Vietnam so that statement makes no sense. Please have some sort of context and understanding before making such statements. They "seem" to be part of Europe but they have historically wanted to have it both ways: one foot in one foot out. Go research it yourself I am probably totally wrong! HN comments are not a reference source.

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#329

Post by rbanffy » Sun, Sep 06, 2026, 8:40 AM UTC

somenameforme wrote: post #266

toomuchtodo wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It means the laws of physics allow it, and anyone willing to invest the time and fiat to accomplish it can. This means the world will no longer need to rely on SpaceX for inexpensive lift to orbit through reusable first stages, which is objectively good. No different then China working towards obviating the need for ASML for EUV semiconductor manufacturing.

There are a lot more barriers to things in the real world. China has been dedicating immense effort and brainpower to cloning SpaceX, and they're still not especially close. I think a lot of us (certainly including myself) have no intuition for why this is, because we live in the software world where if you see something that is done then cloning it is generally just a matter of time and effort. But there's certainly…

> because we live in the software world where if you see something that is done then cloning it is generally just a matter of time and effort. But there's certainly some 'secret sauce' at SpaceX that does not seem easy to replicate

In software, thanks mostly to the open-source movement, we all have access to the same materials and manufacturing processes.

In manufacturing, there are huge differences in materials and processes that we need to account for. On the flip side, this can allow one to leapfrog the other rather than replicating them - it’s likely the next reusable Falcon 9-class vehicle will use a methalox engine that’ll be easier to maintain compared to Flacon 9’s kerolox ones. China has demonstrated a novel approach to vehicle recovery as well (in addition to landing legs). Future competitors will have access to materials current incumbents didn’t have and can’t easily adopt with their current supply chain.

People also forget SpaceX subverted a lot of the expectations for reusable rockets - they didn’t use parachutes, but opted to carry extra propellant for landing; they didn’t eject the engines, opting instead to reuse the whole stage; and they built landing barges because their rockets would launch towards the ocean, saving fuel for a boost back to the launch site. They also tested capsule landing using the launch abort rockets, but opted for parachutes and splashdowns instead. Still they keep all the RCS motors in the capsule, making their expendable service module very inexpensive in comparison to Boeing’s.

All these decisions point to proven mission architectures so that followers don’t need to explore architectures that were explored and dropped.

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#330

Post by rbanffy » Sun, Sep 06, 2026, 8:43 AM UTC

panick21_ wrote: post #257

toomuchtodo wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It means the laws of physics allow it, and anyone willing to invest the time and fiat to accomplish it can. This means the world will no longer need to rely on SpaceX for inexpensive lift to orbit through reusable first stages, which is objectively good. No different then China working towards obviating the need for ASML for EUV semiconductor manufacturing.

Just because you invest in it doesn't mean you end up with hugely cheap and scalable launch. Europe has already invested far more in rocket then SpaceX did and isn't close. If your capital efficiency is far lower, it might not be inexpensive. If you can get the scale because you don't have payloads, its going to be more expensive. There is a incredibly long road between 'rocket can land' and 'cheap and scalable launc…

SpaceX was founded on making launches cheap. Arianespace only recently decided to develop reusable launch systems. Up to SpaceX demonstrating it was possible, the dominant approach to cheap launches was in making the expendable rocket cheap to manufacture. Nobody needs to be reminded the shuttle promised cheap access to space and failed at that.