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Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

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Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#311

Post by orphereus »

cccbbbaaa wrote: post #192
orphereus wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't it matter if this part of France is an ocean away?

I do not think so, but anyway, it is definitely not a proof that we are further decoupling ourselves from the US, which is the claim made in the root comment. France has launched rockets from France for decades. Being an ocean away does not make Kourou reliant on the US.

I think the opposite because in this specific case we have the US which has the world's strongest navy, and the strongest navy by far in the Atlantic.

My opinion is that there is an implied reliance on the US "allowing" Europe to ship the rockets to Kourou and launch them there.

If our relations ever completely sour, the US might, for example, take over the shipping vessels going to Kourou, kinda like Europe takes over Russian shadow fleet vessels.

Now all of a sudden Europe has no means of launching rockets, except now it can launch to polar orbits. It might seem a stretch, but there is a non-zero chance that could happen, therefore it is better to have an alternative.

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#312

Post by hiddencost »

mag7269 wrote: post #213
zzzeek wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh we (the non idiots here) know full well what we lost. If Europe has a larger and more substantial science / technology community, that will just mean more trips/job offers in EU for me, so go Europe !

As an American, I welcome a multi-polar world where Europe pulls its weight when it comes to science, technology and engineering! More so in geopolitical matters. It’s always been very draining for one empire or nation to maintain world peace. The 19th century was Pax Britannica, the 20th, after WW2, was Pax Americana, we can now hope that Pax AmEuropana can offer a counter to the crazy rapid growth of Asia and also…

That's nonsense. It's imparted us with incredible prosperity and peace. The US is a much poorer and worse nation due to you and your kind destroying what we built.

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#314

Post by flohofwoe »

drysine wrote: post #289
dotancohen wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only the military aspect. His staff literally were absorbed into the Russian sand US space programs. Von Braun himself famously designed the Saturn V.

>His staff literally were absorbed into the Russian sand US space programs. Not really in case of the USSR. German group in Russia was isolated and Korolev didn't like competition. Soviet space program started by replicating German rocket, but once all production chains were created, it was off on its own course. I highly recommend English translation of memoirs of Boris Chertok[0] to anyone interested in the history…

That was just because the Russian's didn't trust "their" Germans as much as the Americans trusted "theirs". Operation Osoaviakhim was mostly about knowledge extraction, not about cooperation. The other difference was that the "Russian Germans" didn't go to Russia on their own will (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Osoaviakhim).

Once the knowledge was "extracted" the Germans were allowed to return though (good thing Stalin was already dead at that time).

Former Junkers engineer Brunolf Baade then went on to build the first and only German jet airliner for East Germany - which then of course was cancelled as soon as it was ready to enter production: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baade_152).

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#315

Post by dfdydx »

Alien1Being wrote: post #282

Really sad to see that Europe is so far behind. Consider India, once single country vs all of Europe: 88 orbital launches successfully reached orbit using Indian built rockets starting in 1980. This is out of 104 individual liftoffs. Over 46 years of successful launches.

I don't understand the one country vs all of Europe - given a fixed population, being united in a single country surely makes everything a bit more efficient than being split in many small countries? India is much bigger than "all of Europe".

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#317

Post by blablabla123 »

artisinal wrote: post #91

I wonder whether the Sámi people have been consulted or compensated for the use of their traditional lands as a rocket launch site. Given Norway’s long history of suppressing Sámi people and their land rights, I'd be interested to know how that was handled.

The first thing that came into my mind was the fragile ecosystem up there. All considered this doesn't sound like a very thoughtful process.

And of course as pointed out elsewhere, Norway isn't even EU. I wonder how happy people were if rocket launches were done in rural Western Europe.

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#318

Post by flohofwoe »

bahmboo wrote: post #281

FYI Norway is not in the EU. Whether they are European is a matter of perspective and I'm not touching that subject any further! Deutschland is in the EU.

> Whether they are European is a matter of perspective

What? Scandinavia isn't part of Europe now? The "EU" is an organization, "Europe" is a continent. "European" includes everybody living in Europe (and yes, that even includes the Brits and most Russians).

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#319

Post by randomNumber7 »

peterfirefly wrote: post #304
sbuttgereit wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe Europe just thinks if you can't beat 'em, join 'em: https://www.nytimes.com/2026/09/05/world/europe/germany-afd-...

Germany also has a crazy Communist party that is more in the pocket of Russia than AfD is -- but somehow that is almost never mentioned, not even in German media. It's quite big and influential.

Idk, to me it looks like the German green party is very anti Russian...

Re: Private German rocket makes history, reaches orbit from European soil

#320

Post by [deleted] »

drysine wrote: post #291
kibwen wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does it mean that? When the US government funded SpaceX, it was motivated in no small degree by a desire to not be permanently reliant on a geopolitical wildcard (Russia) for getting astronauts into orbit. Now that the US itself has become a geopolitical wildcard, savvy countries know that they need to seek out alternatives to SpaceX under more stable regimes.

>geopolitical wildcard How is Russia a wildcard? What unexpected thing do you think Russia has done?

[deleted]
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