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The moral panic over data centres is foolish

economist.com

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Re: The moral panic over data centres is foolish

#181

Post by keeda »

agentultra wrote: post #22

> just about everything in modern life, from streaming Netflix to running a dishwasher, consumes water at levels that can be portrayed as wasteful by hair-shirt environmentalists. Ad-hominems in an Economist article. This reads more like an opinion piece than reporting. There are plenty of documented problems with water usage of data centres. Some can use it efficiently but it costs more to do so and many (most?) do…

> There are plenty of documented problems with water usage of data centres.

I would not be so sure, this article seems pretty comprehensive in questioning these supposed problems: https://andymasley.com/writing/the-ai-water-issue-is-fake/

I agree that the growth of new data centers could be problematic in some areas especially as the infra build-out ramps up. But as many sibbling comments imply, that water can be put to much more economically valuable tasks in data centers than other, drastically more water-hungry uses like golf courses.

Re: The moral panic over data centres is foolish

#182

Post by TiredOfLife »

jedberg wrote: post #15

I have a lot of left leaning non-tech friends. They are all very much against AI data centers. I've built AI data centers, and I keep trying to educate them, but they just won't listen. The water is mostly part of a closed system. Sure, you need a lot to build one, but once it's running it's pretty water efficient. The lack of green power is a problem, but as the article points out, you now have a large customer subs…

> left leaning ... but they just won't listen

Isn't that just the definition of left or right leaning? People who don't listen.

Re: The moral panic over data centres is foolish

#183

Post by owebmaster »

Sabinus wrote: post #146
SamBam wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Besides the data center itself, many people in the US are against what the data center is bringing: more AI. Most regular people have not been sold on the idea that more AI will be good for them or their families or communities personally. Instead all they hear is AI taking away jobs, and AI preventing high schoolers and college kids from learning how to read a book and write an essay. Most people think a world with…

How is this any different to the invention of the cotton mill? You don't get to pick and choose what productive technologies to adopt. You either adopt them, or you'll be paying the countries that do and you'll still lose your domestic industry to competition.

The cotton mill proved its value long time ago. The current AI tools didn't. And a similar build up failed just a few years ago (crypto).

Re: The moral panic over data centres is foolish

#184

Post by isolay »

agentultra wrote: post #22

> just about everything in modern life, from streaming Netflix to running a dishwasher, consumes water at levels that can be portrayed as wasteful by hair-shirt environmentalists. Ad-hominems in an Economist article. This reads more like an opinion piece than reporting. There are plenty of documented problems with water usage of data centres. Some can use it efficiently but it costs more to do so and many (most?) do…

> Ad-hominems

The title already gives it away, calling it a “moral panic”. Casting your opponents as some sort of brain-damaged cranks is such a tired trope.

Re: The moral panic over data centres is foolish

#185

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

lostmsu wrote: post #119
goodmythical wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can is doing an awful lot of heaving lifting there. Given that my sink cannot contain 20 gallons of water and that I do not even fill my sink full to do my dishes by hand, I cannot possibly be using 20 gallons of water to do my dishes when I do my dishes by hand.

You don't rinse them after washing?

I don't apart from when I'm initially filling the washing up bowl and doing some cups and glasses. My theory is that the washing up water has less surface tension and thus runs off the crockery better when they're draining/drying.

Re: The moral panic over data centres is foolish

#186

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

senordevnyc wrote: post #173
tzs wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've not seen a single politician calling for statewide bans on golf courses. I've not seen a single state where anyone is trying to build a ton of new golf courses. There are around 140 being built in the whole country, and I think the most in any one state is under a dozen in Florida. There are more than an order of magnitude more data centers under construction with some states having more data centers under con…

No one would give a shit about two hundred golf courses being constructed in Texas. Even with the massive data center build out, existing golf courses today use more water than all projected data centers globally are expected to use in 2030. The water issue is completely farcical.

The issue isn't so much about water usage, but water pollution. Golf courses don't usually make the tap water undrinkable.

Re: The moral panic over data centres is foolish

#187

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

judge2020 wrote: post #23

> Please enable JS and disable any ad blocker lol

Dark pattern

Only need JS for the Datadome domains in order to get the Datadome cookie. No JS is required to read economist.com and ad blockers do not need to be disabled

JS is optional for reading economist.com

Re: The moral panic over data centres is foolish

#188

Post by hackeraccount »

sajithdilshan wrote: post #78

I think the hatred towards the data centers stems from the anger and frustration that has been caused by the white collar job replacement done by AI. We have an entire generation of young people that went to college and got a degree hoping that they would be able to get a good job and live a comfortable life. However, that's not the case anymore and the fact that almost all entry level jobs are replaced by AI has cre…

What you're saying is exactly the question isn't it? I've seen polling on opposition to data centers and "I hate AI" isn't a majority reason. It's more like 15%.

The reasons people give are higher electric bills, water shortages, and environmental damage.

I think that those reasons are spurious but I also think that for some issues facts don't make much difference. People will have opinions about things that are totally at odds with facts.

Re: The moral panic over data centres is foolish

#189

Post by rainsford »

milkshakes wrote: post #92
ok123456 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have. That's a common objection to golf courses. The difference here is that data centers are both economically and environmentally extractive. People in the community, or at least in the surrounding area, will play golf there. Data centers are purely extractive, and that's why they have become so galvanizing. It's transferring probably the only real asset these communities have left, their open spaces, direct…

> data centers are purely extractive please, tell me more > people in the community, or at least in the surrounding area, will play golf there going to go out on a limb here and guess that net-net, a datacenter provides more benefits to a broader spectrum of society than a golf course does.

> going to go out on a limb here and guess that net-net, a datacenter provides more benefits to a broader spectrum of society than a golf course does.

Is that true locally though? Having a golf course nearby your home is better than the golf course just existing somewhere, at least if you play golf, but that is decidedly not true of data centers. You might benefit from at least some of them existing, but derive very little benefit from having one in your backyard and a lot of potential downsides.

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