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An open DNS recursive service for free security and high privacy

quad9.net

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Re: An open DNS recursive service for free security and high privacy

#31
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's a real benefit in many situations. Everything on your lan can do normal DNS queries to your local forwarder, which talks DNS over TLS or DNS over HTTPS to Quad9. Downside is Quad9 can see all your DNS traffic. But without it if you run your own recursive resolver your ISP sees all your queries, and many others see portions of them, unencrypted.

> But without it if you run your own recursive resolver your ISP sees all your queries, and many others see portions of them, unencrypted. This hopefully shouldn't be an issue for long with stuff like RFC 9539 and OOTS/SVCB.

Courtesy link for HN readers

https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc9539/

Re: An open DNS recursive service for free security and high privacy

#32
post #29

quad9 is recommended by Privacy Guides. There's also other recommendations. https://www.privacyguides.org/en/dns/#recommended-providers

Why not run your own recursive resolver like unbound if you're looking for privacy

Your ISP can snoop on upstream requests. It is likely less private than Quad9 or similar services where you can mix requests with a large crowd.

Re: An open DNS recursive service for free security and high privacy

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I prefer to run my own local recursive resolver. Used to be fine. I stopped doing it when average TTL dropped to 300 seconds and it takes far too long for my local recursor to get the answer >100ms, when 3rd party resolver delivers in <10ms.

It's still fine. I run my own recursive resolver and have no noticeable issues.

Good for you

Re: An open DNS recursive service for free security and high privacy

#34
post #8

Just a quick note for the unsuspecting: I run two local DNSes, one recursive and one forwarding. The forwarding one uses few services, like 1.1.1.1, 8.8.8.8, 9.9.9.9, etc. One day I noticed inconsistent responses and started investigating. Turns out that by default 9.9.9.9 have "protection" and for your safety will lie and return NXDOMAIN or something else, for some dangerous domains, taking into account their defini…

Instead of CloudFlare's 1.1.1.1 I like CloudFlare's 1.1.1.3: it filters known porn and known malware sites. By now I expect many sites to be filtered out: too much crap out there. Then I also run my own DNS (unbound) and after seeing a warning from one of my banks about a phishing site where one letter differed in the domain name from the real bank's site, I went ballistic: I did generate hundreds of thousands (maybe…

I ended up getting rid of unbound, stubby, and a technitium instance and just moving to numa.rs everywhere i needed dns. It simplified my life a lot. Now laptops run it with forward*ng that makes sense for their use case (ie home dns to my home dns vms running numa, work dns forwarded to work dns servers, everything else was recursive resolving but i swi5ched it to their odoh and it worked great while probably being more private

Re: An open DNS recursive service for free security and high privacy

#36
post #8

Just a quick note for the unsuspecting: I run two local DNSes, one recursive and one forwarding. The forwarding one uses few services, like 1.1.1.1, 8.8.8.8, 9.9.9.9, etc. One day I noticed inconsistent responses and started investigating. Turns out that by default 9.9.9.9 have "protection" and for your safety will lie and return NXDOMAIN or something else, for some dangerous domains, taking into account their defini…

Instead of CloudFlare's 1.1.1.1 I like CloudFlare's 1.1.1.3: it filters known porn and known malware sites. By now I expect many sites to be filtered out: too much crap out there. Then I also run my own DNS (unbound) and after seeing a warning from one of my banks about a phishing site where one letter differed in the domain name from the real bank's site, I went ballistic: I did generate hundreds of thousands (maybe…

>works flawlessly.

Obviously. You’re continually tinkering with it.

The vast majority of people do not share the same hobby of troubleshooting and tweaking home DNS of all things.

Re: An open DNS recursive service for free security and high privacy

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I prefer to run my own local recursive resolver. Used to be fine. I stopped doing it when average TTL dropped to 300 seconds and it takes far too long for my local recursor to get the answer >100ms, when 3rd party resolver delivers in <10ms.

You don't have to obey TTL. You can use Unbound options like: cache-min-ttl: 3600 // seconds cache-min-negative-ttl: 3600 // seconds or serve-expired: yes serve-expired-client-timeout: 20 // milliseconds to wait for resolution before serving the old value to the client

Can also have unbound preemptively refresh cached values too...

    prefetch: yes
Tada, now your unbound serves records faster than the round trip out to anything off your own network in most cases.

Re: An open DNS recursive service for free security and high privacy

#38

In California, from Xfinity Cable, Google’s DNS consistently has the lowest latency. From AT&T fiber, Cloudflare’s 1.1.1.1 is always the fastest, though Quad9 is a very close second. It’s interesting that it’s different from different ISPs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anycast#Domain_Name_System --- 8.8.8.8 ping statistics --- 10 packets transmitted, 10 received, 0% packet loss, time 9015ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 23.666/25.241/27.628/1.022 ms --- 9.9.9.9 ping statistics --- 10 packets transmitted, 10 received, 0% packet loss, time 9015ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 23.811/25.256/27.003/1.024 ms --- 1.1.1.1 ping statistics --- 10 packets transmitted, 10 rece…

Why even bother posting these stats? Ping is effectively irrelevant to the conversation.

Re: An open DNS recursive service for free security and high privacy

#39
>"Quad9 blocks lookups of malicious host names from an up-to-the-minute list of threats. This blocking action protects your computer, mobile device, or IoT systems against a wide range of threats such as malware, phishing, spyware, and botnets, and it can improve performance in addition to guaranteeing privacy."

OK, let's understand the following:

Yes, it is absolutely true that there are malicious web sites, malicious API's, malicious endpoints on the Internet, most having hostnames, aka domain names, that can be blocked on lookup...

It is, generally speaking, a good idea to block malicious hostnames, malicious domain names, if they can be identified, if they can be known. And usually they can.

But there is a problem with performing such blocking however, and this is not a problem specific to Quad9 -- it's a problem for any DNS provider.

The problem can be simply stated as follows:

If you have the power to block any hostname, any domain name, any web service or web site whatsoever, then...

...how do you know that you are not accidentally blocking any legitimate, morally upstanding, ethically correct, legal, lawful, web services or websites, inadvertently?

?

In other words, for every 50,000 or so malicious domain names, how do you know that you didn't drag in at least one legitimate/legal/lawful one into that mix?

You see, it's philosophical question!

It's a variation of "Who guards the guardians?" (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quis_custodiet_ipsos_custodes%...)

In other words, it raises such questions as "What's the resolution process if a lawful website is inadvertently blocked?" and "What is the criteria for blocking a website?" and "Who determines that criteria?", etc., etc.

Simply put: Who guards the guardians?

Now, this being said, we do appreciate everything that Quad9 and other free/privacy-focused DNS services do and provide.

We can make the counter-argument that privacy-focused DNS providers in general are "the good guys" and that for every 10,000+ domains with malicious intent, maybe only 1 or 2 actually legal, lawful, law-abiding domains are ever actually accidentally blocked -- and that would be a good counter-argument...

It's a great life to browsers to get rid of all of the malicious websites, but it's a horrendous life to individual legal lawful website owners when their ethical website is blocked for no apparent reason via an unaccountable non-transparent black-box service with no formal resolution process or channel!

Heard of "The Great Firewall of China"?

Most of that is implemented via DNS blocking!

Via DNS providers!

So in the future, I'd love to see a more, let's call it "responsibility-focused" DNS provider, one that at least attempts to notify any party that is blocked, notifies users of blocks, and has an open, public and transparent dispute resolution service for any party whose domain is blocked.

Anyway, in the interim, we thank Quad9 and the other privacy-focused DNS providers for their services!

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