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Wikimedia Foundation Workers Overwhelmingly Vote to Form Union with CWA

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Re: Wikimedia Foundation Workers Overwhelmingly Vote to Form Union with CWA

#121

Post by criddell »

next_xibalba wrote: post #84
Grombobulous wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think all employees should work for a union. My local art museum has a union. My local school system has a union. The non-profit university I graduated from has a union. Why shouldn't WMF have a union? I really don't understand the bitterness toward them. If you look at their data, their donations are growing faster than their expenses. The people who donate to Wikipedia/WMF want more money to go into the organizat…

I can't think of a single unionized organization that is run as well as or better than union-free organizations. Unionized companies all seem to be crippled by bureaucracy and unable to improve performance and output.

Professional sports is probably a good counter example. Major League Baseball, for example, treats the players better than any other baseball league around the world and most of the gains were achieved through collective bargaining.

Or how about Hollywood writers? The Writers Guild of America writers are responsible for most of the most successful movies and TV of the past decade or two (maybe longer). WGA writers are treated better than just about any other screenwriters around the world.

Re: Wikimedia Foundation Workers Overwhelmingly Vote to Form Union with CWA

#122

Post by b40d-48b2-979e »

mmooss wrote: post #37
dbingham wrote: post #23

Lots of people asking "Why?". They say so right on their site: There are big changes happening in the technology industry and they are acting pro-actively to ensure the workers have a strong collective voice in the ways the foundation chooses to respond to those changes. "The Wikimedia Foundation and the broader technology and nonprofit sectors are navigating a period of significant change. From rapid advances in art…

Also, there are allegations of adversarial management behavior. I can't find the link now, but some background: https://www.wired.com/story/wikipedia-workers-vote-on-whethe... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49143414 https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikitech-l@lists...

All management is adversarial with the worker.

Re: Wikimedia Foundation Workers Overwhelmingly Vote to Form Union with CWA

#123

Post by Danox »

next_xibalba wrote: post #84
Grombobulous wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think all employees should work for a union. My local art museum has a union. My local school system has a union. The non-profit university I graduated from has a union. Why shouldn't WMF have a union? I really don't understand the bitterness toward them. If you look at their data, their donations are growing faster than their expenses. The people who donate to Wikipedia/WMF want more money to go into the organizat…

I can't think of a single unionized organization that is run as well as or better than union-free organizations. Unionized companies all seem to be crippled by bureaucracy and unable to improve performance and output.

Kaiser Permanente, Fire Sprinkler Pipe Fitters, HVAC Tin Knockers many others…

Re: Wikimedia Foundation Workers Overwhelmingly Vote to Form Union with CWA

#124

Post by OneDeuxTriSeiGo »

groundzeros2015 wrote: post #109
OneDeuxTriSeiGo wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Half of that goes to wages and salary for ~650 staff members. Of the ~114M that goes to wages, 90M goes to people working directly on projects, 15M goes to admin/management, and the other 9M goes to people in fundraising/financials. 9M goes to paying donation processing fees. 3.5M goes towards network infra. ~2M of in-kind services were donated (i.e. doing free work or donating goods) and that shows up as a dedicated…

6 million dollars in conferences sounds like a lot? Are they holding the conference?

It's for travel and conferences. IIUI this includes dedicated Wikimedia photographers that attend events and/or travel around the world to take royalty free/CC licensed photos for Wikipedia articles to use.

Long term it's far cheaper and gets you more, higher quality images than trying to hunt down images and negotiate license terms on each one.

Re: Wikimedia Foundation Workers Overwhelmingly Vote to Form Union with CWA

#125

Post by OneDeuxTriSeiGo »

colechristensen wrote: post #113
OneDeuxTriSeiGo wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because a workplace is good currently does not mean it will always be good. The fist is a fist none the less because the workers have the power if they need to use it. The hope is that they never have to but if changes in management force the workers' hands it is far better to be already organised and ready to correct management than for the workers to have to scramble to organise after the fact.

Again, mixed messages. Your symbolism is just tradition and doesn't really mean that, until it does. Talking about how unions are for everyone and not about antagonism while adopting clearly antagonist symbolism while trying to take both sides simultaneously really sends the messages: A) we're cosplaying rebellion because we think it's cool and B) we're the ones starting the antagonistic relationship. This is the pro…

The raised fist isn't just raised in defiance or in opposition.

It's also raised in solidarity and in support.

And either way a raised fist is just basic union iconography and I don't see any issue

Re: Wikimedia Foundation Workers Overwhelmingly Vote to Form Union with CWA

#126

Post by groundzeros2015 »

OneDeuxTriSeiGo wrote: post #124
groundzeros2015 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

6 million dollars in conferences sounds like a lot? Are they holding the conference?

It's for travel and conferences. IIUI this includes dedicated Wikimedia photographers that attend events and/or travel around the world to take royalty free/CC licensed photos for Wikipedia articles to use. Long term it's far cheaper and gets you more, higher quality images than trying to hunt down images and negotiate license terms on each one.

I bet volunteers would do this for free and do.

Re: Wikimedia Foundation Workers Overwhelmingly Vote to Form Union with CWA

#127

Post by Arubis »

aliasxneo wrote: post #96
Arubis wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, certainly: the ability to say “no” to abusive labor conditions without risk of irreversibly losing any source of income while living in a society that treats lack of income as deserving of whatever pains and suffering come with it. The word “any” is doing a lot of work here—I’m implying a denylist or “social credit score” or other way of persisting punishment against an individual beyond mere job loss. You’re ri…

> living in a society that treats lack of income as deserving of whatever pains and suffering What does the opposite society look like? Universal income?

I’m not even sure that’s a useful question. It almost points at “what’s the other end of the continuum so we can discuss points on the axis”, which _is_ useful, but I’m not even convinced that “merely” treating those without income as deserving pain is at an end of a continuum itself. It’s a point upon it; things could be worse yet.

Instead let’s break away from opposites and into pieces. What would be _different_ in a society that doesn’t judge harshly the less fortunate?

I’d suggest that would include ensuring that nobody starves or sleeps on the street for want of work.

Re: Wikimedia Foundation Workers Overwhelmingly Vote to Form Union with CWA

#128

Post by colechristensen »

OneDeuxTriSeiGo wrote: post #125
colechristensen wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, mixed messages. Your symbolism is just tradition and doesn't really mean that, until it does. Talking about how unions are for everyone and not about antagonism while adopting clearly antagonist symbolism while trying to take both sides simultaneously really sends the messages: A) we're cosplaying rebellion because we think it's cool and B) we're the ones starting the antagonistic relationship. This is the pro…

The raised fist isn't just raised in defiance or in opposition. It's also raised in solidarity and in support. And either way a raised fist is just basic union iconography and I don't see any issue

You may not see an issue, other people sure do. Do you want to radicalize or do you want to welcome? Unions in America have a perception problem which makes their jobs harder, their image is one the rebel without a cause, people agitating and being oppositional not for valid reasons but because they want to rebel. Cosplayers. People imagine 1900s coal miners as fighting for their freedoms and baristas as a joke.

You reenforce this by flying flags with raised fists to represent knowledge workers at a nonprofit unionizing with nothing in particular that they seem to want to fix.

Re: Wikimedia Foundation Workers Overwhelmingly Vote to Form Union with CWA

#129

Post by PorciiVorbesc »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #106
aliasxneo wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> living in a society that treats lack of income as deserving of whatever pains and suffering What does the opposite society look like? Universal income?

It looks like a healthy extended family where resources are shared towards a common goal of health and liberty.

>It looks like a healthy extended family where resources are shared towards a common goal of health and liberty.

In the Europe, like several rich western countries, we mostly replaced the extended family with the government welfare state, for better but mostly for worse.

So current young workers are contributing to a failing state ponzi pension system that will leave them in poverty by the time they retire in several decades, and they will also lack the care of the extended family unit that was the norm decades ago thanks to collapsed birth rates. Double whammy.

Re: Wikimedia Foundation Workers Overwhelmingly Vote to Form Union with CWA

#130

Post by PorciiVorbesc »

asadotzler wrote: post #86
parineum wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anyone wanted to do the math, that's an average of 175k per person

That's about half total comp of juniors at any FANG.

FANG juniors make 350k+/year?
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