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Netherlands pulls gold out of the US

abc.net.au

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Re: Netherlands pulls gold out of the US

#251

Post by kergonath »

disdegeneration wrote: post #147
anon84873628 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until you can buy oil without dollars. This was an explicit agreement called the Petrodollar system, which was premised on the US navy securing international trade. If the US navy proves unable to do that (and exhausts its arms and demonstrates unpreparedness for future conflicts) then the whole premise falls apart. You might also stop buying real estate if the government seems unstable and economy is poised to colla…

Until you find a more thrustworthy stewart of the international order. Everyone yells loudly about how bad the us is, but then you realize that the whole world voted with there feet that every other alternative is worse. The russians tried for years to write some replacement fiction into reality (BRICS) even though they would be the first to get shanked if the old great game returned. Its a absurd situation where emp…

> Everyone yells loudly about how bad the us is, but then you realize that the whole world voted with there feet that every other alternative is worse.

The main problem right now is that the US are not the US for which we voted with our feet. They are a worse alternative to the US that created the status quo (to their advantage obviously, but much of the world also benefitted from free trade and the lack of other world wars).

Re: Netherlands pulls gold out of the US

#253

Post by retired »

badabingfrlgl wrote: post #250
retired wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

England is a country that is part of the United Kingdom.

In contrast to the falklands that isn’t part of england, and never has been.

That's true in the sense that the Falklands have never been legally part of England. But Britain has exercised control over them since the 1760s, with interruptions, and they’re still a British Overseas Territory today. So saying they've never been British would be inaccurate, but saying they're "part of England" would also be inaccurate.

Re: Netherlands pulls gold out of the US

#254

Post by frenchamerica »

wazoox wrote: post #9
ivolimmen wrote: post #2

I am dutch and read the news this week but I found it weird that a part of it went to England. I was expecting a European country.

England is definitely a European country. I'm tired of people constantly making this political abuse of language of conflating "the EU" with "Europe". (And yes, saying "America" for "US of A" annoys me too. First step towards losing an imperialist state of mind is letting people from Canada and Brazil be in America).

French Guiana is part of America and of European Union.

Re: Netherlands pulls gold out of the US

#255

Post by leonidasrup »

dismalaf wrote: post #188
IshKebab wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the rest of the world needs dollars to transact Why? Dollars are currently the most convenient. If that changes the world could easily switch to Euros, Yen, Yuan, etc.

So which do you choose? Yuan carries Chinese geopolitical risk, Yen, probably not enough of it in the world plus Japan keeps trying to devalue, Euro maybe, but there's plenty of geopolitical risk there with Russia on the doorstep and shifting politics... Plus if everyone doesn't choose the same it's less convenient.

Why choose a single currency? Just return to gold standard, values of goods and services denominated in mg, g, kg of gold.

Most international trade is already done electronicaly, so there would not much need to physicaly move gold.

Goverments don't like gold standard because they can't print gold.

Re: Netherlands pulls gold out of the US

#256

Post by nradov »

IshKebab wrote: post #245
nradov wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None that can absorb such enormous capital flows.

Nonsense. The USA is not bigger than the rest of the world.

US capital markets are the largest and most liquid in the world. It's not even close.

There are of course a zillion other borrowers worldwide but they're all much smaller and suffer from a variety of other structural problems. If you need to deploy a huge amount of capital with low risk and high liquidity then US treasuries are still the only realistic option.

Re: Netherlands pulls gold out of the US

#257

Post by spwa4 »

lumost wrote: post #204
nradov wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China's government is "very stable" until it's not. As a society, China has a long history but the central government has essentially collapsed or experienced violent revolution in 1976, 1969, 1949, 1927, 1911, 1850, 1796, 1644, etc. Perhaps we have reached "the end of history" and the Chinese Communist Party will now maintain stable control forever. Or maybe it will all fall apart again in a few decades due to resou…

The loss of a succession strategy with an elderly leader at the helm seems like a major issue.

... for everyone, Chinese or not, except the elderly leader in question.

Same for Russia.

Re: Netherlands pulls gold out of the US

#258

Post by spwa4 »

strken wrote: post #175
georgeecollins wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not defending the US government but the reason why you hold treasuries is because if you want to buy something in two years, or ten years, etc. there is a good chance you will want to buy something with dollars. Oil, soy beans, New York real estate..

In a way, the bond market tracks international central banks' confidence that this will continue to be true. If they lose some of that confidence, their stock of bonds moves from USD to RMB/EUR/JPY/AUD/CAD/SGD/etc.

True, except you're being way too easy on those other currencies. Currencies need to be issued by groups able to guarantee international trade, otherwise there's no point.

RMB - maybe, but nobody sane trusts China to not immediately change priorities on a dime

EUR - imho (much) less chance than RMB, but they're using a hack: of EUR is a massive entity and internally there's no choice. Literally not allowed (due to tax reasons) (exceptions of course made for favored entities) (I feel that those favored entities exist, and how big they are, should be a huge red flag for anyone considering using EUR)

JPY - can't project force ... and doesn't even try

AUD - no

CAD - no

SGD - no

I don't understand why you're not listing GBP, as they have at least at some point done this. Of course they were a worse steward of international trade than the worst point of the US. Also, you consider AUD, but not CHF?

So what choice is there, really? This is really a way to try to push the US to do more, for less "exorbitant privilege" (especially EUR). Of course, a great many people are very interested in doing just that. It strikes me as an extremely dangerous game to play. Yes, the odds of winning are good, but if you lose, you lose everything.

Re: Netherlands pulls gold out of the US

#259

Post by adastra22 »

retired wrote: post #242
talideon wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to be pedantic, then this also wrong: half of Ireland, the Isle of Man, and Scotland are actually on the Laurentian plate, which split apart. The Scottish Highlands used to be part of the same range as the Appalachian. Plates are not continents.

I thank you for correcting me! I learned something today.

Geologically speaking, Scotland had a lot more to do with Appalachia than the rest of Europe…

Re: Netherlands pulls gold out of the US

#260

Post by epistasis »

smallmancontrov wrote: post #186
epistasis wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I'm not seeing anything tying the trade deficit to the destruction of unions, to the massive reduction in top tax rates resulting in higher CEO compensation, etc. The piece puts increasing trade deficits next to lots of stuff about increasing inequality, but it does not make the case that trade deficits are the cause of increasing inequality. There's a person that had a job making physical things, but they ar…

A current account deficit is a capital account surplus. We can pay for imports with things we make or things we own. To a first approximation, making things employs people and owning things does not. If we pay with things we make, our economy employs people. If we pay with things we own, the jobs disappear while stocks/bonds/real estate soar. If you want the whole story from an actual economist, read "Trade Wars are…

You're missing the third thing we pay with: T-bills. We literally print money. That's it. We didn't give up anything we own. We didn't give up anything we made. We printed money, because there needs to be enough currency to represent the ever growing wealth of the world and the world has chosen the US dollar as the reserve currency, to the great benefit of the US.
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