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Record-High 89% in U.S. Say Government Corruption Widespread

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Re: Record-High 89% in U.S. Say Government Corruption Widespread

#511

Post by FireBeyond »

asdff wrote: post #222
jimt1234 wrote: post #77

Citizens United. Nothing else to say. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._FEC

Some local governments are fully designed to be perfect vehicles for corruption by this point. The incentives just lead to it over time as one corrupt prick makes things a little easier for themselves and their ilk to operate without oversight. Things compound over the decades of people drawn to the graft opportunities in local government with their campaigns funded by the beneficiaries of the graft, against little t…

Absolutely. In my town the politicians on the planning and zoning committees are all best friends with all the developers in town, and not just "we work in the same area, socialize at the same events", but "we go on joint family vacations with our kids together and are in each other's bridal parties"...

... and then wonder why the public gets mad when the environmental impact study says "not good", public works says "area roads can't support the traffic influx and can't support increasing capacity due to geography and existing homes" and still approve the developer's new project anyway.

Re: Record-High 89% in U.S. Say Government Corruption Widespread

#512

Post by godelski »

hakunin wrote: post #195
autoexec wrote: post #8

Corruption in the US isn't new, but it's never been done as openly as it has been recently. I don't think it's a good thing. It shows that the government isn't concerned about what the public thinks, which suggests that they believe they no longer have to be. That's not a healthy sign for what's supposed to be a democracy.

Saying “US corruption isn’t new” is a truism. There are probably isolated incidents, and many unproven theories, but everyone is quick to agree with this statement because it’s a common feeling everyone has now for some reason. The reality of corruption is likely much smaller and more boring than people think. What we’re witnessing now is what should be called corruption. That corruption that everyone has been scream…

  > because it’s a common feeling
Even the graphs in the article suggest this. The low point for perceived corruption was 59% in 2006. So 20 years ago more than half of Americans already believed it. Even their OECD median graph's lowest point was 55%.

What I hate about the top comment is it is a thought terminating cliche. It sure as hell makes a difference when 90% of people believe the government is corrupt vs 60% of people. It treats the situation as binary. What also matters, and isn't shown in the graphs, is how corrupt people believe the government is. But we can also make some pretty good inferences here that more people think corruption is higher. There's a big difference between a leaky bucket with a few small holes and the bucket having such large holes that it's more accurate to call it a pipe.

  > It’s to say that they’re all the same.
Exactly. It is the binarization of things. Extreminism is a lack of nuance. It is dehumanizing because we're all complex beings. It is a lie because the world and all of us have complexity to us. Extremism wins by making everything simple and easy to understand. "It's so simple, you just..." tune in and tune out. Don't think, just feel. Don't solve problems, just get angry. You get to feel high and mighty, because you're smarter than everyone else. If you were king for a day you could solve all the world's problems, because it is so simple.

So I'm going to leave everyone with this classic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLNhPMQnWu4

Re: Record-High 89% in U.S. Say Government Corruption Widespread

#513

Post by FireBeyond »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #386

89% only think that? Wanna talk about the enrichment of US politicans? Not just the Trump and the Pelosi but also a serious discussion about the net worth of, say, the Obama, Ilhan Omar and Kamala Harris, etc.? And the argument: "But they only made millions, while Trump made billions" ain't a valid one. It's not "better" if you only manage to steal less: you're still a thief. A less successful thief, but still just a…

Careful, your partisanship is showing. Telling that you don't mention Rick Scott, Elaine Chao, Kushner, Wilbur Ross, Tom Price, George Santos, Duncan Hunter, MTG, Mike Kelly, Kelly Loeffler, Chris Collins... but instead hand wave away Trump and say "but look at all these Democratic thieves who are thieves but less successful ones".

And uh, going to need a citation on what exact thievery you're referring to with, say, Obama, whose net worth comes from two book deals after his Presidency for his memoirs, unless you're seriously claiming that Penguin Random House offering advances on what turned out to be best sellers or a Netflix deal is akin to a revolving door to consultancy, let alone the theft you're actually accusing him of here. Meanwhile, all the names I mentioned were people who did commit actual crimes or were believed to have done so (by the DOJ) but either "didn't press charges" after influence from the current administration, were charged, or were convicted and then pardoned or commuted again by the current administration.

But no, let's talk about the Dems.

Re: Record-High 89% in U.S. Say Government Corruption Widespread

#514

Post by wahern »

mulmen wrote: post #501
wahern wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's called penal labor, and it was and remains widespread around the world. (And, yes, Brazilian law requires mandatory labor for all prisoners.) It wasn't until the middle to late 20th century that countries began to reform penal labor. But it's complicated. Without penal labor you can't force prisoners to, e.g., do laundry or mop floors. Even mandatory community service is a form of penal labor, and you can still…

> Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. > Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation. The 13th amendment specifically mentions penal labor as an exempt form of slavery. Take your criticism to th…

Setting aside textual analysis and how commas are used in the constitution, the point is that people claim not just that slavery is allowed, but that mandatory penal labor is slavery, and implicitly the same slavery that was ostensibly abolished.

So do you agree or not agree that mandatory penal slavery is an extension of 19th century and earlier American slavery. Because that's what the movement and rhetoric are saying. And removing the Exception Clause won't change the rhetoric, because the entire point is to argue "things haven't changed".

It's the same rhetoric that equivocates "wage slavery". All those things can, of course, fall under a literal definition of slavery. Just like all forms of misbehavior by politicians can be called corruption. We can say, well, Trump isn't doing anything every other politician hasn't done. Which can be literally true. But I choose not to play semantic games like that, because those semantic games are at least as likely to be used to excuse abuses as they are to prevent them. If you want reform, pursue reform. Note that many states have removed their state constitutional Exceptions Clauses which by itself resulted in zero changes to the status quo, because when you play semantic games there's always room to redefine things on-the-fly, or to find another semantic loophole. Every court knew what the Exceptions Clause actual, contextual meaning was, and can just as well redefine slavery or non-slavery to exclude or include penal labor. Semantic games don't change the real world, except insofar as they promote cynicism, confusion, and disengagement from substantive issues.

Re: Record-High 89% in U.S. Say Government Corruption Widespread

#515

Post by shimman »

FireBeyond wrote: post #471
shimman wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump is bad, but please let's not excuse corporate neoliberal dems that are totally fine with insider trading, legalized bribes, and are quite proud that their consultant campaign workers get lucrative gigs at corporations/boards due to insider access. I mean we have people like Gillibrand that are openly in bed with the crypto industry while somehow decrying what Trump is doing. Feels like they're upset that Trump…

> Feels like they're upset that Trump exposed how rotten this game has gotten. You make it sound like he's the one calling this out, "Drain the swamp" style, when instead he's the one elevating it to the next level. A month ago he sat for a TV interview in the White House, and he said, verbatim, "My children are insider trading all the time". And it was so on-brand for Trump's administration that it barely moved the…

Don't disagree, take your example of using cryptocurrency to massively break banking regulations plus the ability to make rug pulls a known feature. Now what do you expect democratic politicians to actually do about it since they have no issues working with the crypto industry while taking their donations? Gillibrand is a great example of this, crying about Trump getting rich off cryptoscams but not willing to actually legislate against this stuff because it'll cut off a lucrative source of campaign financing:

https://theintercept.com/2026/07/13/gillibrand-crypto-trump-...

Like this plays into the record "high" perception of corruption. (also you know that the democratic has had majority unfavorable ratings throughout the Trump administration [1], a major blight and a poor sign that the opposition party is in fact not unified in opposition)

I do find the person that makes your comments amusing. Mostly the types that do zero organizing, never volunteered for a political campaign, have never canvassed in their life, don't attend party meetings, aren't part of any state committees across the US, but all seem to exactly know what's wrong with the voters and apparently you aren't allowed to criticize a party for reasons that allude me.

Perfectly capable to form plenty of words just fine. I'm a democratic party operative that has mostly grown to hate the party more as the years go by, luckily my sentiment is hardly unique (way more common than back in 2016).

What do you exactly do to help combat this situation? I rather converse with people that are engaged and not just consumers of advocacy.

[1] https://theintercept.com/2026/07/13/gillibrand-crypto-trump-...

Re: Record-High 89% in U.S. Say Government Corruption Widespread

#516

Post by shimman »

thisisit wrote: post #384
shimman wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump is bad, but please let's not excuse corporate neoliberal dems that are totally fine with insider trading, legalized bribes, and are quite proud that their consultant campaign workers get lucrative gigs at corporations/boards due to insider access. I mean we have people like Gillibrand that are openly in bed with the crypto industry while somehow decrying what Trump is doing. Feels like they're upset that Trump…

What is this argument really? Comparing one man’s corruption to a whole party with decades of history. “Honey my cheating on you is bad but look at this man Trump with decades of public philandering.” Whataboutism at its finest.

No, it's more like "oh wow that explains why Americans do not trust institutions, have massive unfavorable feelings about the democratic party, and voters no longer believe democratic politicians are pro-worker."

Like this is a thread about corruption but I guess if you give a shitty corporate veneer it's suddenly. If you're older than 40 you saw the democratic party implement NAFTA, cut welfare programs, and bail out banks; apparently these three major policy pillars aren't related to people's feelings on corruption.

Totally independent, they're just totally only saying Trump + republicans are corrupt not like the entire system that compromises two parties both of which are in bed with corporations and voters have a lived history reflecting just this.

Next thing you're going to tell me is that the Gaza Genocide played no role in Harris losing '24 either.

Re: Record-High 89% in U.S. Say Government Corruption Widespread

#517

Post by NeutralCrane »

CGMthrowaway wrote: post #420
autoexec wrote: post #8

Corruption in the US isn't new, but it's never been done as openly as it has been recently. I don't think it's a good thing. It shows that the government isn't concerned about what the public thinks, which suggests that they believe they no longer have to be. That's not a healthy sign for what's supposed to be a democracy.

>Corruption in the US isn't new, but it's never been done as openly as it has been recently. It's been open a long time. Patriot Act/Snowden/Assange, JFK coverup, shutting churches to keep Walmart open, social media censorship, gerrymandering, immigration enforcement, etc

Corruption does not mean bad policy. It’s government officials breaking the law to empower and enrich themselves. To the extent the items on your list even exist outside of the addled minds of conspiracy theorists, they aren’t corruption.

Re: Record-High 89% in U.S. Say Government Corruption Widespread

#518

Post by Melatonic »

autoexec wrote: post #8

Corruption in the US isn't new, but it's never been done as openly as it has been recently. I don't think it's a good thing. It shows that the government isn't concerned about what the public thinks, which suggests that they believe they no longer have to be. That's not a healthy sign for what's supposed to be a democracy.

It's also possible that we have better tools now to expose corruption and communicate it to each other. The level of corruption could be the same but we are just much more aware

I agree though it's concerning that now it seems to be done without care to the visibility

Re: Record-High 89% in U.S. Say Government Corruption Widespread

#519

Post by shimman »

AdieuToLogic wrote: post #123
shimman wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay and how do you think it helps the democratic candidate's ability to win elections when they are part of the same party that supports corporations over people? In the not so recent past the democratic party controlled Congress for 60+ years on the new deal coalition alone, now look what the party has morphed into... I read the article too, in what sane world is it okay if 70% of citizens thought their governments…

> The only thing I got out of this article is that both parties + the F500 need to be destroyed. Destruction is easy, as we are all witnessing. Making things better is hard. It takes commitment to incremental change, often having to overcome setbacks, and accepting that the product of democracy is inherently nonlinear. Democracy also demands that its participants understand that most of the time what each individual…

Nah, this is the same tired excuse that has never played out in reality.

Destruction is totally fine of useless institutions. Especially those that are openly antagonistic and profit from killing Americans. US institutions are designed to impede progress and stop actual democratic movements.

No one was ever asked the public what they thought when they shoved neoliberalism down our throats. Yet that system reigns supreme and has created a hellscape where people are openly ignoring their biological imperative because their lives are so miserable (a behavior that's also found in animals at zoos).

Re: Record-High 89% in U.S. Say Government Corruption Widespread

#520

Post by [deleted] »

nonethewiser wrote: post #232
pseudosavant wrote: post #38

Looking at their charts, Democrats and Independents clearly think corruption is up a lot since 2024. But Republicans think corruption is down from 2024. The polarization of the electorate in the U.S. is pretty incredible.

From 2024 -> 2026 Republican: 88->83 Democrat: 57->91 Republicans barely changed. It's insane than Democrats were so low 2 years ago.

[deleted]
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