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Terpstra Keyboard

terpstrakeyboard.com

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Re: Terpstra Keyboard

#31

Post by stackghost »

taybin wrote: post #15
coldpie wrote: post #2

For folks wondering wtf is going on with the key layout, this is what's called an isomorphic ("same shape") layout. The idea is you can learn how to play a certain grouping of notes relative to each other, and then you can play that same grouping anywhere on the keyboard relative to some other note. So for example a C major triad is the notes C-E-G played together. And a D major triad is the notes D-F#-A played toget…

Now piano players will be able to join guitar players as not needing to read music or know theory!

Music theory has very little to do with playing music.

Re: Terpstra Keyboard

#32

Post by taybin »

stackghost wrote: post #31
taybin wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now piano players will be able to join guitar players as not needing to read music or know theory!

Music theory has very little to do with playing music.

Agreed, but it’s helpful for communicating to other musicians.

Re: Terpstra Keyboard

#33

Post by Johanx64 »

luqtas wrote: post #17
gcanyon wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any idea why something like this costs $5,000? It seems like manufacturing costs would justify 1/10th of that maybe? Disclaimer: I'm not a hardware manufacturer nor retailer, I'm just going off what regular typing keyboards go for.

> Any idea why something like this costs $5,000? It seems like manufacturing costs would justify 1/10th of that maybe? welcome to Capitalism and Niche Products sir

What does it have to do with "Capitalism" per se?

If you have a well made, but very niche product that sells in very small volumes it will be expensive.

If any of the labour & assembly happens in US that turns it into unavoidable inevitability.

If it was cheaper, it would be a loss making hobby.

A country without "capitalism" wouldn't make such product for sale to begin with.

Re: Terpstra Keyboard

#34

Post by Johanx64 »

gcanyon wrote: post #12
triclops200 wrote: post #4

I play the lumatone ( https://www.lumatone.io/ ) which is very similar. I personally love it, especially as I like to do a lot of improv in various tunings, and the layout makes transposing and thinking about structure so much easier than a traditional keyboard. The terpstra seems similar, not sure what their selling point is over the lumatone. Edit: oh, it seems that the lumatone is the commercialized version essent…

Any idea why something like this costs $5,000? It seems like manufacturing costs would justify 1/10th of that maybe? Disclaimer: I'm not a hardware manufacturer nor retailer, I'm just going off what regular typing keyboards go for.

Lets presume this thing retails at - very unrealistic low price - of $500.

How many people would buy this weird thing per month - even at this low price point? 10? 50? 100?

Imagine you're an engineer and your competency is worth $200,000/year. If this retailed at 1/10th - as you suggested - so $500, and lets generously say you make $100usd per unit at this price point.

You have to atleast sell ~166 of these "weird" niche things per month, every month, no exceptions to match. And you're probably not a single person, so way more.

Can you? And why bother?

More importantly, can you even make these things for $400usd when your order quantity is only 166units per month?

And this is after spending years(?) in development, and some non negligible amount of cap ex.

Re: Terpstra Keyboard

#35

Post by ianthehenry »

gcanyon wrote: post #19
fxwin wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm just going off what regular typing keyboards go for. Are there any regular typing keyboards with velocity sensitive keys? I genuinely don't know, it's just the first thing I'd compare this to

Yeah, velocity definitely jumped out at me as a difference, but it seems(?) like being velocity-sensitive could 2x the cost, maybe even 3x, but not 10x ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I'm absolutely not calling it over-priced, just puzzled.

Well the only moving part in a typing keyboards is a mass-produced switch that you slot into a PCB. There are mass-produced hall effect switches that can provide velocity sensitivity, but it's a pretty distant comparison. The keys on a lumatone aren't anything like buttons; they're weighted mechanical arms with significant travel -- much more like a piano key than a keyboard key. And it has 280 of these! The degree of mechanical hardware in this thing makes it seem not really comparable to a PCB with some switches slotted into it.

That said! There are people making DIY isomorphic keyboards using hall-effect keyboard switches. None are commercially available right now, but see e.g. the MidiHex at https://gullsonix.co.uk/. You could make one for a fraction of the cost of a lumatone -- but of course it would be a very different instrument.

Re: Terpstra Keyboard

#37

Post by iAMkenough »

jrflo wrote: post #6
coldpie wrote: post #2

For folks wondering wtf is going on with the key layout, this is what's called an isomorphic ("same shape") layout. The idea is you can learn how to play a certain grouping of notes relative to each other, and then you can play that same grouping anywhere on the keyboard relative to some other note. So for example a C major triad is the notes C-E-G played together. And a D major triad is the notes D-F#-A played toget…

That's really cool, I would definitely be interested in a "normal" keyboard that had this kind of layout as a guitar player. Needing to remember different hand shapes to play a major chords took a long time to get used to - would love to be able to just "slide up" the shape like you do on guitar with bar chords.

The House of the Rising Sun test of the commercial version of this keyboard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlZv13YZzSM

Re: Terpstra Keyboard

#38

Post by mehackernewsacc »

thih9 wrote: post #10

https://polyend.com/keys/ A recent product concept, computer keyboard with function keys arranged like piano keys. Also intersects music, technology and keyboard layout, but from a different angle.

Just be aware that Polyend's modus operandi is to constantly churn out new hardware and not properly support and fix bugs in the software of things already released. Always on to the next thing.

Re: Terpstra Keyboard

#39

Post by Palomides »

gcanyon wrote: post #12
triclops200 wrote: post #4

I play the lumatone ( https://www.lumatone.io/ ) which is very similar. I personally love it, especially as I like to do a lot of improv in various tunings, and the layout makes transposing and thinking about structure so much easier than a traditional keyboard. The terpstra seems similar, not sure what their selling point is over the lumatone. Edit: oh, it seems that the lumatone is the commercialized version essent…

Any idea why something like this costs $5,000? It seems like manufacturing costs would justify 1/10th of that maybe? Disclaimer: I'm not a hardware manufacturer nor retailer, I'm just going off what regular typing keyboards go for.

if they sell 100 of these per year (which I doubt), with profit of $3000 per unit (which I also doubt), that pays enough to employ like one person (who needs to handle sales, support, marketing, three or four different kinds of engineering, etc.)

Re: Terpstra Keyboard

#40

Post by Fnoord »

swiftcoder wrote: post #21
gcanyon wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any idea why something like this costs $5,000? It seems like manufacturing costs would justify 1/10th of that maybe? Disclaimer: I'm not a hardware manufacturer nor retailer, I'm just going off what regular typing keyboards go for.

> I'm just going off what regular typing keyboards go for. It's not that long ago that a mechanical keyboard with Hall-effect switches and individually-addressable LEDs would have set you back a couple of grand. The mechanical keyboard scene has exerted really significant downward pressure on the cost of this sort of thing - something that likely doesn't hit the music world due to lower volumes

Hall effect by Wooting costs like a few hunderd EUR and have been around for quite some years, and this one with OLED is from 2007, costing 1600 USD (not worth it IMO) [1]. You don't typically look at your keyboard, same with toich bar. I guess there's a niche ie. Stream Deck (also overpriced). Doubt keys last long, given OLED burn-in.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimus_Maximus_keyboard

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