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I Want a Wife (1971) [pdf]

sevanoland.com

101–110 of 114 posts

Re: I Want a Wife (1971) [pdf]

#101
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hire a three person staff and you're set. On the salary, you might want to raise that a bit.

What's gone wrong in the period between that three women today are as capable as one in 1970?

The two interesting points:

- you're assuming the 3 person you're hiring are women

- the people you hire only work for slices of time in a day

What's gone "wrong" is in the 70s women were still fighting for ERA and were significantly more dependent on their husband. Being in a half-slave status providing for their family 24/7 with nowhere else to go was more of a norm.

Re: I Want a Wife (1971) [pdf]

#102

None of that stuff really seems that difficult or time consuming. I think the danger of being in the position of a stay-at-home mom is that your partner can abandon you at any time and leave you with the full burden and no financial support. I think the problem really stems from a lack of suitable men rather than the role itself

> your partner can abandon you at any time and leave you with the full burden and no financial support.

Yes, absolutely. Or that a financially-dependent partner (I'm deliberately not applying gender), even without kids (though children massively raise the stakes), can become trapped in an abusive relationship.

I'm going to wade into political waters, by pointing out that this is a wider problem that can be addressed at the societal level. When the full burden of all poor outcomes is placed upon unsupported individuals, then individuals in aggregate respond by making more-cautious decisions - whether that's to stay in an abusive relationship, avoid having children, have fewer children, or avoid relationships altogether. The same could be pointed out for the choice between, eg, choosing corporate employment vs trying entrepreneurship. A society that insulates its citizens against some downside risks allows individuals more agency over their own lives.

Re: I Want a Wife (1971) [pdf]

#103
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you asked women? Or even just observed their choices? Women overwhelmingly value motherhood over their careers when asked, see e.g. https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/8791-mult-country-survey-m... There is no patriarchy. We live in an oligarchy and always have. Did anyone ever ask men whether they actually want to spend their lives in the workforce or if they'd rather spend more time at home working on their own…

Can you explain how women can both be allowed to have careers if they want while also not being "forced" into the workplace? It just sounds like you want women to face extreme societal pressure to be mothers, and the few women that break out and have careers are going to be ostracised. In modern, liberal, western society women are free to do whatever they want. If they want to get married at 25 and have 5 children th…

> Can you explain how women can both be allowed to have careers if they want while also not being "forced" into the workplace?

In the same way that people are at to listen to reggae without being forced to do it.

The problem with work is cultural, though. We are struggling with the fact we don't really need to work much any more. Most of our essential needs are beyond covered: food, warmth, shelter. But we can't get out of the work mindset. Even our popular music is littered with references to work.

Practically speaking, it's difficult for people to work less because they are wage slaves. You can work less, but then you'll earn less and won't be able to compete with dual earners for housing etc. It's a very difficult thing to reverse.

> It just sounds like you want women to face extreme societal pressure to be mothers, and the few women that break out and have careers are going to be ostracised.

Ridiculous. My partner is a woman and we're child free. I wish there were more child free women. I find them a lot more interesting than breeders. But it should be their choice. My point was that feminism has failed to create choice and instead caused a situation where women feel compelled to join the labour force, whether it's what they really want or not.

Re: I Want a Wife (1971) [pdf]

#104
post #70
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tbf, that's a very "modern"-ish way of viewing the idea of "committing". And there are good reasons for that, of course, but with that thinking, you're always going to be not fully there, which might be harmful in different ways than the ways it tries to protect against. It's a hard problem to solve, because Humans and interpersonal stuff is hard, but, ideally, one would frontload the friction, so that there is no ne…

Sure in our modern era there are a lot more divorce and it's probably partly because people are less inclined to make efforts to stay in a relationship. But there's also statistically less abuse and domestic violence and that's partly because women by and large have a lot more options than they used to. I don't think the trade off of having less divorce and more long lasting relationships is worth the increase of dom…

The thing is, assuming you get married as a step toward building your own family, once you have kids, there isn't an out that doesn't involve damaging them for life. Your contingency plan is going to be bad no matter what, and not being present in their lives and putting them in daycare is making a real sacrifice to mitigate a risk that is better mitigated by being discerning in the first place.

Being able to spend all of your time with your family is the freedom to strive for, not a loss of freedom. It is the ultimate form of being your own boss; you are accountable to no one, not even customers/market forces. The loss of freedom is trading your time to accomplish someone else's goals that you're not really invested in while you pay someone for their time to watch your kids who they're not really invested in. And this trade can only really make sense after overhead if you outsource to people who make a decent amount less than you, further decreasing their likelihood to be capable or driven to do a good job.

Re: I Want a Wife (1971) [pdf]

#105
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's gone wrong in the period between that three women today are as capable as one in 1970?

The two interesting points: - you're assuming the 3 person you're hiring are women - the people you hire only work for slices of time in a day What's gone "wrong" is in the 70s women were still fighting for ERA and were significantly more dependent on their husband. Being in a half-slave status providing for their family 24/7 with nowhere else to go was more of a norm.

If women were more effective than men at the position why would I hire men?

If men are more effective than women why are women today more than three times worse at being housewives than they were in the 70s?

Getting paid 10 times the average US wage is a very funny definition of slavery.

Re: I Want a Wife (1971) [pdf]

#106
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I support equality between biological sexes this had some ill effects. Giving birth is a woman job. Breastfeeding is a woman's job. Replacing breast milk with something else might be one of the causes of allergies and other ill effects (I'm guessing). To me it looks like women want to be compensated for the unpaid work of birthing children and taking care of them during their upbringing. No one fucking likes un…

People absolutely do like unpaid work, so much so that the phrase "do-it-yourself" appeared as a marketing term. I do all the unpaid labor I can. It builds competence, lets you ensure quality, and is generally cheaper/more efficient (out of the formal economy = no taxes, which is immediately a huge drag). Wanting compensation for raising your kids is like wanting compensation for making yourself a nice dinner. The co…

Some unpaid work might be character building yes, but what I'm talking about is not.

Getting kids will give a guy high fives at work while a woman will be asked if she is going to get any more when looking for work. Also a guy salary will not be set back by 3-5 years of child bearing and it will also reflect badly on a woman's pension saving because exactly of this.

While having children is rewarding is not an economical reward for all involved.

Re: I Want a Wife (1971) [pdf]

#107
post #98
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then I'm confused by what you're trying to say. Reread it a few times, let me try to state how I understand your argument: - thinking about having a way out (so not being a stay at home wife for example) is a modern way of thinking about "committing". - By thinking this way, you're not fully in the relation, so it's harmful to the relationship stability. (which I interpreted as divorce) ok, I admit the last part, I'm…

Aah, okay, I see. No, I wasn't referring to divorce, because divorce is actually a pretty healthy failure mode (or can be, at least). The worse failure modes are the ones where people do not disengage for whatever reason and stay in the situation indefinitely. What I wanted to get at is that "relationship turning sour" is (usually) nothing one has zero control over. Because the logical chain proposed was "Things can…

Oh, now I get it. Thanks. For what it's worth, I agree with you about spending time getting to know each other before moving forward. I just believe that doing that doesn't reduce the necessity of not putting oneself in a situation with no alternatives or way out.

Re: I Want a Wife (1971) [pdf]

#108
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and expectation once the baby is born. This can be resolved by choosing a better man as a partner, one that is supportive and willing to be an equal partner. I understand finding someone that fulfills that as well as this person also being someone you're attracted to and compatible with socially is challenging, but I have seen relationships like this before so I know it's possible.

This cannot be resolved, you will not be an equal parent or even close to it the first few months, maybe even over a year. Breast feeding and various dependencies that develop (like that the kid wants to fall asleep at the breast) mean that most of the effort of parenting early falls on the mother. And then there's the fact of life that other stuff needs to be taken care of. Trash still needs to be taken out, groceri…

> Trash still needs to be taken out, groceries bought, etc further pushing you towards the stuff outside of parenting.

Who told you these are jobs you can't equally share with a partner?

Re: I Want a Wife (1971) [pdf]

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People absolutely do like unpaid work, so much so that the phrase "do-it-yourself" appeared as a marketing term. I do all the unpaid labor I can. It builds competence, lets you ensure quality, and is generally cheaper/more efficient (out of the formal economy = no taxes, which is immediately a huge drag). Wanting compensation for raising your kids is like wanting compensation for making yourself a nice dinner. The co…

Some unpaid work might be character building yes, but what I'm talking about is not. Getting kids will give a guy high fives at work while a woman will be asked if she is going to get any more when looking for work. Also a guy salary will not be set back by 3-5 years of child bearing and it will also reflect badly on a woman's pension saving because exactly of this. While having children is rewarding is not an econom…

Raising children is probably the epitome of character building, self-actualizing work. There are no external stakeholders to motivate you. No one's going to do it for you if you don't. You get out of it exactly what you decide to put in, and you're efforts go purely to something you care about. It is the most important project you can do, and you and your spouse are solely responsible for it.

It's not supposed to be economically rewarding to have children. It's the reward that economics are meant to enable.

Re: I Want a Wife (1971) [pdf]

#110
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My brother is the fun uncle of my daughter. Know the fun uncle is always appreciated. You should visit them soon :) And tell my brother to get back here for his overdue visit.

Hehe aww, thanks. Can't tell ya how much I love those kids. They're 4 and 6. The boy is just obsessed with baseball. They live down in LA, I'm in PDX. When they come up here, they get so excited like I'm the best part of visiting Portland, and when I'm heading down my bro tells them I'm coming and they just wanna tell me jokes or sing songs or shoot hoops. (I'm always raising the basket hahah). It is seriously the ul…

He's got an open one :) Just has to finish his trip to Japan and then his visit to our aunt. He'll get here when he can :)
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