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Global warming will exceed 1.5-degree limit, UN says

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Re: Global warming will exceed 1.5-degree limit, UN says

#161

Post by senordevnyc »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #63
tekla wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in India where the vast majority of people either eat no meat or only chicken/fish That is such a misleading comment. ~80% of people in India consume meat. That "or" is doing some incredibly amounts of borderline lying. https://www.dataforindia.com/meat-consumption/

They consume far less meat and the specific types are the uniquely least polluting types Chicken/Fish produce an order of magnitude or in some cases two orders of magnitude less pollution than cows do. Trying to gaslight me on this topic even though I'm right on the part that matters. the "or" stands in for the context of the fact that Chicken/fish are an order of magnitude healthier for the planet, and frankly, for…

Not remotely what gaslighting means

Re: Global warming will exceed 1.5-degree limit, UN says

#162

Post by [deleted] »

epistasis wrote: post #27
ThrowawayIP wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The technology-will-save-us mentality is part of the reason we are here. We live in a society that doesn't do anything unless it makes money for some set of decrepit old men. We had the means to avoid this (strict vegan diets, ground based mass transit, dense development & re-wilding, energy transition) but people made money doing the opposite. And more people made money sabotaging solar+battery pricing in the US. So…

No it isn't, the idea that strict vegan diets would have stoped climate change is just nonsense. Run the numbers. "Strict vegan diets" is the attitude of US activists telling the developing world that they need to change their behavior before the US activist is willing to accept driving less or adopting dense urban infill housing. "Making money" is the incentive system of society. Technology has now aligned society's…

[deleted]

Re: Global warming will exceed 1.5-degree limit, UN says

#163

Post by jgilias »

ThrowawayIP wrote: post #16
multiplegeorges wrote: post #2

Not much of a surprise. Government action has been anemic at best. Industry action (overall) has been net negative. The only hope now is exponential growth of (solar and wind)+batteries making other sources uneconomic. This seems to be slowly happening, so I hope we hit the exponential curve soon and we're there quicker than we expect. This only stops it. Then, to fix it, we'll need a massive Direct Air Capture indus…

The technology-will-save-us mentality is part of the reason we are here. We live in a society that doesn't do anything unless it makes money for some set of decrepit old men. We had the means to avoid this (strict vegan diets, ground based mass transit, dense development & re-wilding, energy transition) but people made money doing the opposite. And more people made money sabotaging solar+battery pricing in the US. So…

In medicine there’s this well known axiom that if an intervention regime would technically work, but is something that the patients tend to not follow through, then the intervention regime doesn’t work.

Re: Global warming will exceed 1.5-degree limit, UN says

#164

Post by notarobot123 »

reilly3000 wrote: post #133
m00dy wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain what 'Luddite' means in a broader context? Not all of us grew up learning British history :)

Luddite: someone who is against using technology out of fear (of economic opportunities mostly)

More generously: someone who resists new technologies due to their perceived harmful effects (economic but also social and environmental)

Re: Global warming will exceed 1.5-degree limit, UN says

#165

Post by smallerfish »

xnx wrote: post #64
multiplegeorges wrote: post #2

Not much of a surprise. Government action has been anemic at best. Industry action (overall) has been net negative. The only hope now is exponential growth of (solar and wind)+batteries making other sources uneconomic. This seems to be slowly happening, so I hope we hit the exponential curve soon and we're there quicker than we expect. This only stops it. Then, to fix it, we'll need a massive Direct Air Capture indus…

Population decrease will have the biggest impact.

Yeah and there's two ways to get there - planned and unplanned. It'll happen one way or the other.

Re: Global warming will exceed 1.5-degree limit, UN says

#166

Post by hgoel »

ThrowawayIP wrote: post #16
multiplegeorges wrote: post #2

Not much of a surprise. Government action has been anemic at best. Industry action (overall) has been net negative. The only hope now is exponential growth of (solar and wind)+batteries making other sources uneconomic. This seems to be slowly happening, so I hope we hit the exponential curve soon and we're there quicker than we expect. This only stops it. Then, to fix it, we'll need a massive Direct Air Capture indus…

The technology-will-save-us mentality is part of the reason we are here. We live in a society that doesn't do anything unless it makes money for some set of decrepit old men. We had the means to avoid this (strict vegan diets, ground based mass transit, dense development & re-wilding, energy transition) but people made money doing the opposite. And more people made money sabotaging solar+battery pricing in the US. So…

Apparently between technology and soul crushing authoritarianism at an unprecedented scale, you would much rather the latter than the former.

Re: Global warming will exceed 1.5-degree limit, UN says

#167

Post by maxerickson »

jbotz wrote: post #155
psadri wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been wondering: more solar means we are making Earth less reflective. Solar energy that might have been reflected back to space is now absorbed by the PV to make electricity. But that delta has to go somewhere? Where does it go in terms of Earth’s temperature. Same with more nuclear… we’d be pumping more energy into the system. Don’t take this as an argument against these technologies. It’s a huge win to not b…

We're actually heating the earth in two ways... one is by increasing the greenhouse gases in the atmosphere. The other is simply by using energy; any use of energy means moving something to higher entropy and thus producing heat, even if that energy comes from 100% clean or renewable sources. However, nobody talks about this second way of heating the earth because it's about two orders of magnitude behind the first,…

Compare anthropogenic heat release to daily solar gain and radiative losses.

Then note that a higher temperatures will increase the radiative losses.

100x heat release and it's still about 1% of solar gain.

Re: Global warming will exceed 1.5-degree limit, UN says

#168

Post by ch4s3 »

fullshark wrote: post #22
ThrowawayIP wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The technology-will-save-us mentality is part of the reason we are here. We live in a society that doesn't do anything unless it makes money for some set of decrepit old men. We had the means to avoid this (strict vegan diets, ground based mass transit, dense development & re-wilding, energy transition) but people made money doing the opposite. And more people made money sabotaging solar+battery pricing in the US. So…

Technology is more feasible than politically driven "degrowth" or any of the other proposals.

No country will ever vote for degrowth so it either has to be done secretively which will cause a populist backlash like in the UK or at gun point. Degrowthers are IMO all basically eco fascists.

Re: Global warming will exceed 1.5-degree limit, UN says

#169

Post by roughly »

I think the conversation here is making me more depressed than the news. The number of people who don’t believe collective action is possible, who somehow believe the current techno-capitalist model is determined by god or history or whatever, who don’t have any particular knowledge about history, economic development, etc but are very happy to very loudly yell that the only thing we can do is more of the same but maybe faster - man, y’all call yourselves hackers, but you sure are an incurious and gullible lot.

Re: Global warming will exceed 1.5-degree limit, UN says

#170

Post by Vegenoid »

rib3ye wrote: post #61
ThrowawayIP wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The technology-will-save-us mentality is part of the reason we are here. We live in a society that doesn't do anything unless it makes money for some set of decrepit old men. We had the means to avoid this (strict vegan diets, ground based mass transit, dense development & re-wilding, energy transition) but people made money doing the opposite. And more people made money sabotaging solar+battery pricing in the US. So…

You really had to throw veganism into the mix there…?

I think that convincing people to go vegan is one of the least plausible ways to combat climate change, but livestock are responsible for 10-20% of greenhouse gas emissions: https://thebreakthrough.org/issues/food-agriculture-environm...
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