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AI handles incidents, engineers lose touch with their systems

sylvainkalache.com

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Re: AI handles incidents, engineers lose touch with their systems

#261

Post by filoeleven »

iforgotmypasswo wrote: post #92

I feel a lot of comments here are missing the forest for the trees. We do not yet have the next generation systems that will manage AI creation and maintenance of systems. Humans have been making spaghetti code systems and maintaining them poorly for years. Best practices developed… eventually. But certainly not in the 70s and 80s. Spaghetti was the norm for quite some time. The development paradigm has changed. Fore…

> We’re still roughly on year one of this transformation.

OpenAI Codex was released in 2021. Artificially compressing what we see now to one year of growth is an example of why it's very hard to trust anything AI proponents say.

Re: AI handles incidents, engineers lose touch with their systems

#262

Post by deadbabe »

huurtehoog wrote: post #153
deadbabe wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you doing those things for your own enjoyment though, or to eventually capitalize on it? And if it’s just for enjoyment, then doesn’t it make sense other people who want the same would just get a job where they can keep pushing things to an AI, feel good, get paid, then quickly get back to the hobbies they really love?

You are advocating for the kind of compartmentalization that got us here in the first place.

Nothing wrong with compartmentalization. Some people like it, some people don’t. Just different ways to live your life.

Re: AI handles incidents, engineers lose touch with their systems

#263

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

KronisLV wrote: post #162
shakna wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its different, in that when you teach that engineer, they either leave because now they hate you, or they grow. They change to meet the standards of a project, rather than inventing their own. We don't get seniors, without juniors. I'd say more than half the job, is just... Learning. People grow.

> Its different, in that when you teach that engineer, they either leave because now they hate you, or they grow. Or they just have their own hubris and ignore your (provably better) suggestions because their way is "better/easier/how we've always done things". And then you end up with someone sprinkling N+1 issues throughout the system and making systems with bad architectures throughout the years, not thinking abou…

Thank you for the Archunit recommendation, that library looks incredibly useful in this modern, agent driven world.

Re: AI handles incidents, engineers lose touch with their systems

#266

Post by cmiles8 »

This is the same challenge aviation had with an over-reliance on automation. You end up with pilots that can’t fly the plane when it really matters. Look up the Asiana crash at SFO which is a lesson in what will happen to engineering orgs that over-rely on AI.

Re: AI handles incidents, engineers lose touch with their systems

#267

Post by nekoashide »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #256
nekoashide wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear, that one shot prompt was supported by nearly a years worth of work around developing an enviroment that allows me that level of effortless automation. The issues was really simple, I knew the application, I knew what the bug was and already had a workaround in my head. I simply stopped at going down that rabbit hole and told claude to deal. It identified the issue quickly, found the workaround and made t…

> The issues was really simple, I knew the application, I knew what the bug was and already had a workaround in my head. If that's the case, Claude isn't gaining you anything. The hard (and time consuming) part of programming is finding the correct solution, not typing the characters into an editor. When I know the code and have a good idea of the solution, I can write the code to fix it in mere minutes.

If only it was that easy, we are gated behind controls and processes that consume a significant amount of time between finding the bug, and a production push. AI quite literally automates the stuff I don't want to do, like create a fill out a jira ticket in the exact way that team wants it.

I don't have time for that, and neither do the teams that consume these request. As time has gone on me and the other teams I work with are no longer touching code, the AI will follow processes and procedures that pre date AI just fine with some human reviewing and approving.

AI has turned what was weeks at minimum to get a bug fix out, to just doing it all with with some human gating. It's not been a smooth process but watching it play out in real time it's getting faster, more efficient, and less prone to problems.

And that the crux off the situation, patching and securing configurations need to be done much faster than today, project glasswing has shown us that AI can scale to identify and solve those problems faster than a human.

Re: AI handles incidents, engineers lose touch with their systems

#268

Post by tracerbulletx »

bob1029 wrote: post #6

A natural evolution of engineers losing touch with the customers and users. I'm noticing some of the concern play out regarding AI weakening the capabilities of software people. I gave the team an exact solution on a silver platter and they still failed to identify how to go about it after 3 days slamming it into Claude. The resolution is literally 1 line of code that could be arrived at in about 30 minutes of patien…

What is your relationship to this team? Their manager? A senior colleague? Something about this sounds like a failure of communication or leadership. Why are you stand offish from them? Why are you treating them like children? If they don't know what they're doing why did you hire them? Now that you did why are you treating them like a burden and not an opportunity to mentor, teach, and uplift?

Re: AI handles incidents, engineers lose touch with their systems

#269

Post by ofjcihen »

oblio wrote: post #187
2wrist wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great comment. At my place, this is what they want. They want people to smash through things as fast as possible. They don’t want people to sit and craft a solution which takes in to account the whole. They are choosing tools which are low code, and use llm’s to produce what they need. as they say “this is the way things are going”.

In today's episode: "Programmers frustrated that they're being treated like craftspeople or delivery drivers or factory workers, etc, etc."

I don’t understand how this comment is productive for any of the groups involved. Can you explain it to me?
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