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Global warming will exceed 1.5-degree limit, UN says

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Re: Global warming will exceed 1.5-degree limit, UN says

#71

Post by sajithdilshan »

shubhamjain wrote: post #55

It’s surreal how quickly this went from being the most important problem in the world to barely being on anyone’s mind, all in less than a decade. I had plenty of problems with the fear-mongering and doomed-by-2030 predictions, but the current situation, where we seem basically fine with doing nothing, is genuinely scary. Technology has its limits, billions of people still aspire to a European standard of living, and…

Because it’s truly a first world problem. Rest of the world has other problems like hunger, clean drinking water and other basic necessities to solve

Re: Global warming will exceed 1.5-degree limit, UN says

#72

Post by partiallypro »

collingreen wrote: post #56
partiallypro wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue with the global warming advocates is that they seem to believe that in order to solve global warming we need to make everyone's life worse. That was already a non-starter. It's just terrible marketing. You say it's for the benefit of "decrepit old men," but the fact is that more and more of the globe is being lifted out of poverty and living more comfortably than ever before. The unfortunate fact is that gl…

Your framing, that no collective action can ever include reduction or sacrifice, implies this is an inevitable and fatal path we cannot come back from. I hope you are wrong that nothing requiring sacrifice can ever be accomplished.

This sacrifice involves putting millions back in poverty. I don't think you understand what I'm saying.

Re: Global warming will exceed 1.5-degree limit, UN says

#73

Post by charles_f »

wateralien wrote: post #51

Our environment will collapse and the fat cats will still deny it and convince most of us that it was our fault and that nothing could be done and that we should just buy their anti-environment-collapse products to protect ourselves.

> Our environment will collapse and the fat cats will still deny

It is, and they are. We keep hitting record X Y and Z temperatures, cyclones, etc, and they're on the brig shouting "it ain't global warming you morons"

Re: Global warming will exceed 1.5-degree limit, UN says

#74

Post by epistasis »

charles_f wrote: post #59
epistasis wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it isn't, the idea that strict vegan diets would have stoped climate change is just nonsense. Run the numbers. "Strict vegan diets" is the attitude of US activists telling the developing world that they need to change their behavior before the US activist is willing to accept driving less or adopting dense urban infill housing. "Making money" is the incentive system of society. Technology has now aligned society's…

You're assuming that we keep the same system and that no sacrificing can be made. Technology is seen as the only solution because of the primary assumption that we need to keep growth and late stage capitalism. Degrowth, relocalisation, lower consumption are all solutions that would work better than technology (there are very serious people out there who demonstrated that technology won't replace the energy we need,…

> You're assuming that we keep the same system and that no sacrificing can be made.

No. I am not.

I'm saying that unless the incentive system is aligned with our goals, then it's not actually climate action.

Technologists succeeded at doing that.

People who decided to use non-policy driven political action failed utterly at this. The degrowthers are particularly bad at this, but then all their thinking was muddled and riddled with errors about the reality of the science.

Technology makes the system non-constant. Technology is one of the biggest sources of social change.

Re: Global warming will exceed 1.5-degree limit, UN says

#75

Post by drfloyd51 »

sagarm wrote: post #32
jezzamon wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People need cars... But not trucks for work :)

People need cars because we designed our environments to require them. It was a choice, not an inevitability.

And here we are. Needing cars. Unless you want to spend the big money of rebuilding cities.

Re: Global warming will exceed 1.5-degree limit, UN says

#76

Post by partiallypro »

zerot_ wrote: post #69
partiallypro wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue with the global warming advocates is that they seem to believe that in order to solve global warming we need to make everyone's life worse. That was already a non-starter. It's just terrible marketing. You say it's for the benefit of "decrepit old men," but the fact is that more and more of the globe is being lifted out of poverty and living more comfortably than ever before. The unfortunate fact is that gl…

> to solve global warming we need to make everyone's life worse This is ignoring that _not_ solving global warming will make everyone's life worse regardless.

It's not ignoring that at all, but I challenge you to go back to the person in China or India that suddenly has amenities and tell him they all have to go away, and everything they worked for over 20 years is gone for "the greater good." You're probably only viewing this from a Western view (already wealthy.)

Re: Global warming will exceed 1.5-degree limit, UN says

#77

Post by wateralien »

This is mostly the UN’s own fault. Nation governments refrain from getting “hardcore” on this because the better options are expensive and they don’t want to be undercut by another country. The UN is supposed to somehow use its deep diplomatic negotiating and deal-making skill to find and enforce agreement between these states so we all adopt the changes together… and penalise the hold-outs (we all know who) together.

Re: Global warming will exceed 1.5-degree limit, UN says

#79

Post by boredtofears »

ThrowawayIP wrote: post #16
multiplegeorges wrote: post #2

Not much of a surprise. Government action has been anemic at best. Industry action (overall) has been net negative. The only hope now is exponential growth of (solar and wind)+batteries making other sources uneconomic. This seems to be slowly happening, so I hope we hit the exponential curve soon and we're there quicker than we expect. This only stops it. Then, to fix it, we'll need a massive Direct Air Capture indus…

The technology-will-save-us mentality is part of the reason we are here. We live in a society that doesn't do anything unless it makes money for some set of decrepit old men. We had the means to avoid this (strict vegan diets, ground based mass transit, dense development & re-wilding, energy transition) but people made money doing the opposite. And more people made money sabotaging solar+battery pricing in the US. So…

We’re so far past this, technology is 100% the only hope and always was. Getting stuck in the mentality that we can shame our way out of this for a decade was (and continues to be) a colossal waste of time.
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