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I Want a Wife (1971) [pdf]

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Re: I Want a Wife (1971) [pdf]

#81

Post by dissent »

Jtarii wrote: post #75
anal_reactor wrote: post #39

Eh. I'm just tired of feminism. It promised equality but instead brought the gender war while driving down salaries.

There has always been a gender war, throughout the entirety of human existence. You just don't like that women have won a few battles recently.

You're right that it's always been there, but wrong that you think it can be won. Every woman's gain is her son's loss, and every father's gain is his daughter's loss. It's an iterative game with a long term aggregate outcome for the society in question. You're framing it from the perspective of individuals. Women cannot win without men also winning and vice versa.

Re: I Want a Wife (1971) [pdf]

#82

Post by Jtarii »

globular-toast wrote: post #76
anal_reactor wrote: post #39

Eh. I'm just tired of feminism. It promised equality but instead brought the gender war while driving down salaries.

Yeah, I'm not sure on balance it's been a good thing. It's doubled the number of wage slaves and created bitterness amongst them. Now they all get to come home to an unclean house with no food, fork out for someone else to raise their children and even walk their dogs. Perhaps the baby was thrown out with bathwater to some degree? Even the apparent victories of feminism are somewhat dubious. For example, the female v…

This is literally just patriarchy talking, you think that men know what's best for women, and what's best for them is for them to stay at home cooking and cleaning. Which is awfully convenient for the men that don't want to do those things.

>I want to live in a fair and equitable society. Everyone deserves a chance.

Except for the women that want careers, they can go fuck themselves apparently.

Re: I Want a Wife (1971) [pdf]

#83

Post by Jtarii »

dissent wrote: post #81
Jtarii wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There has always been a gender war, throughout the entirety of human existence. You just don't like that women have won a few battles recently.

You're right that it's always been there, but wrong that you think it can be won. Every woman's gain is her son's loss, and every father's gain is his daughter's loss. It's an iterative game with a long term aggregate outcome for the society in question. You're framing it from the perspective of individuals. Women cannot win without men also winning and vice versa.

>Every woman's gain is her son's loss

I don't even understand this at all. If you believe gender equality is an intrinsic good then any women's gain up to gender equality would be a gain for anyone who has that principle regardless of their gender.

Do you think that black emancipation from slavery was "white's loss". It's just such a nonsensical position to hold.

Re: I Want a Wife (1971) [pdf]

#84

Post by goalieca »

skeptical1884 wrote: post #3

In a similar vein to this essay, I want to be a father so badly. I love being a woman, and am satisfied with the machinery I have been given. But having to be the incubator means I am saddle with the full brunt of the responsibility and expectation once the baby is born. I go from woman to mother. And with it comes judgement and duties, and goes freedom and care-free living. I want to be a father so I can raise a kid…

> And with it comes judgement and duties, and goes freedom and care-free living.

Being a father myself, i can say it’s a huge sacrifice. If I was to guess why birth rate is dropping, it’s entirely because people are having kids later or not at all so they can focus on themselves.

Re: I Want a Wife (1971) [pdf]

#85

Post by makeitdouble »

noosphr wrote: post #54

I keep reading about what women did in the 70s as housewives and compare it to what they can do today. The current generation of women falls so wildly short pieces like this read more like science fiction than any fiction of the period. I'd happily pay mid six figures to someone who can provide the whole housewife package.

Hire a three person staff and you're set. On the salary, you might want to raise that a bit.

Re: I Want a Wife (1971) [pdf]

#86

Post by makeitdouble »

hypfer wrote: post #9
skeptical1884 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of confrontational approach do you mean?

The essay there weaponizes sarcasm + the emotional experience of that reality to hit the reader over the head with, in an attempt to break their script and force them to a change in perspective. This - evidently - worked and works, but there are trade-offs to it. Specifically, it is zero-sum, which eventually led to the gender war we have now. Since the defenses have been (for the most part) broken down, a modern piv…

> zero-sum

One direction out of it is reducing the social burden on the family in the first place. Perhaps at some point we end at a zero-sum state, but IMHO we're still a long way from there.

I'm thinking about suits and Y-shirts and other garment that require either special care or cost enough to need babying for instance. Many professions still set them as standard job attire, which makes dealing with them either costly or time consuming. Meals are another point where the expectation on the level of meals cooked in a family will directly impact the QOL of the primary care giver. Home design will also bring more or less chores etc.

Looking at countries with high men/women gap, they tend to keep high maintenance traditions alive and social expectations are more punishing towards families that "cut corners".

Re: I Want a Wife (1971) [pdf]

#87

Post by JackSlateur »

Jtarii wrote: post #75
anal_reactor wrote: post #39

Eh. I'm just tired of feminism. It promised equality but instead brought the gender war while driving down salaries.

There has always been a gender war, throughout the entirety of human existence. You just don't like that women have won a few battles recently.

"You just don't like that women have won a few battles recently."

Everyone can burn the house. Not sure how this count as "winning a battle".

("women" are not the only people doing that, seems to be the new game in town..)

Re: I Want a Wife (1971) [pdf]

#88

Post by sersi »

hypfer wrote: post #73
sersi wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure in our modern era there are a lot more divorce and it's probably partly because people are less inclined to make efforts to stay in a relationship. But there's also statistically less abuse and domestic violence and that's partly because women by and large have a lot more options than they used to. I don't think the trade off of having less divorce and more long lasting relationships is worth the increase of dom…

> there are a lot more divorce That is not what I was talking about. Mainly because it's a dumb talking point. You've I think replied to what you expected one would write and not to what was written.

Then I'm confused by what you're trying to say. Reread it a few times, let me try to state how I understand your argument: - thinking about having a way out (so not being a stay at home wife for example) is a modern way of thinking about "committing".

- By thinking this way, you're not fully in the relation, so it's harmful to the relationship stability. (which I interpreted as divorce)

ok, I admit the last part, I'm not sure what you mean by front-loading the friction... I just focused on not keeping a hot standby.

Sorry for my confusion, not trying to be difficult here, I really don't get what you mean if not what I originally interpreted it as

Re: I Want a Wife (1971) [pdf]

#89

Post by skeptical1884 »

DiggyJohnson wrote: post #15
skeptical1884 wrote: post #3

In a similar vein to this essay, I want to be a father so badly. I love being a woman, and am satisfied with the machinery I have been given. But having to be the incubator means I am saddle with the full brunt of the responsibility and expectation once the baby is born. I go from woman to mother. And with it comes judgement and duties, and goes freedom and care-free living. I want to be a father so I can raise a kid…

What an interesting comment. Do you feel that the aspects of fatherhood that you are most jealous of are relatively lower expectations of time commitment directly watching after the kid and encouragement of professional success? And if it’s not too prying to ask what are your ideal expectations for your partner? How important is their career? What is their ideal role in childrearing?

Thanks for the curiosity. The most attractive aspect of fatherhood is two fold: not having to be an incubator while also sharing genetic material, and being shielded from the brunt of the judgement when a ball inevitably gets dropped.

The first since I am highly conscious of my physical and mental health, and I am terrified of haywire hormones and bodily changes out of my control.

The second due to the societal norms put onto mothers where I am from (SoCal). When a child shows up to school in dirty clothes, the mom is blamed, not the father absent of other evidence.

It is also my direct lived experience; my father provided, my mother worked while also caring for us, and bore all the responsibility and blame while my dad got to do the fun part.

I heard my mother complain about her career sacrifice, of cleaning the snot off her fine blouses when I would cry into her arms. I resolved to make different choices, but in doing so, I ask what other choices could I make? If these are the two role models presented to me, why would I ever want the position of my mom?

Re: I Want a Wife (1971) [pdf]

#90

Post by globular-toast »

petesergeant wrote: post #80
globular-toast wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then she would do well to look inwards and try to understand why that is. We all have to play the hand we are dealt. The sooner one realises this, the sooner one can begin the path to happiness. "My soul, will you ever be good, simple, individual, bare, brighter than the body that covers you? Will you ever taste the disposition to love and affection? Will you ever be complete and free of need, missing nothing, desiri…

I wonder if you understand that your comment essentially amounts to "those disadvantaged by prejudice should simply accept their place"

It is within your power to influence others and change society. It's not within your power to change your essential biology.
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