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GNU sed 4.2.2 released, maintainer resigns

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Re: GNU sed 4.2.2 released, maintainer resigns

#31

Post by kindahero »

vsbuffalo wrote: post #21

I really like the elephant and gazelle argument. I am a huge emacs proponent and I love using it, but I feel like it need to be forked and gutted. The whole beauty of an extensible editor is that extensions should be optional. Including more shit each release is not justifiable.

> but I feel like it need to be forked and gutted.

There is Xemacs FYI..

> Including more shit each release is not justifiable.

Maintainers have indeed plans to split the packages out of the core, as the package manager is already up and running..

Re: GNU sed 4.2.2 released, maintainer resigns

#32

Post by dfc »

geofft wrote: post #25
dfc wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Gnome is the new GNU" I have heard this before but never really understood what it was supposed to convey? Is this statement purely from a technical viewpoint? Has Gnome done a lot of work with licensing and activism that I have not heard about?

GNU is about developing a free distribution. The FSF is about licensing and activism. They're basically the same organization, but "GNOME is the new GNU" is a very different claim from "GNOME is the new FSF". And yes, you can basically get a complete distribution from GNOME these days, although you're better off going through one of the real distros. And they are contributing the bulk of technical work for the distri…

"And yes, you can basically get a complete distribution from GNOME these days, although you're better off going through one of the real distros. And they are contributing the bulk of technical work for the distribution, such that GNOME is actually a more meaningful term for it than Linux (which "GNU" never was)."

Either a "complete distribution" means something different to you or you can't be serious? I know very little about this "gnome distribution" or the bulk of the technical efforts that went into it. What version of the kernel is used? Do they include any distro maintained patches for the kernel or is it pristine linux-stable? What package management system is gnome using for their distribution? Is the default compiler in the Gnome distribution llvm or gcc? How do they handle the installation of ruby gems or python eggs? Upstart, systemd, or plain old init?

Re: GNU sed 4.2.2 released, maintainer resigns

#33

Post by eli_awry »

MatthewPhillips wrote: post #6

Why is Stallman still BDFL if he hasn't contributed a meaningful amount of code in years? Let him be the spokesperson so he gets the attention he desperately needs and leave the coding standards to people who code.

For the help of other people: BDFL = Benevolent Dictator for Life. Wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_Dictator_for_Life ) doesnt list him as an example, but that doesn't stop him from being pretty close.

Re: GNU sed 4.2.2 released, maintainer resigns

#34

Post by callmevlad »

sigzero wrote: post #30
piqufoh wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, but by definition BDFL is FL - For Life.

I actually never heard that he was BDFL. I thought that only applied to Guido and Python.

John Gruber considers himself to be the BDFL of Markdown [1], though many question the 'B' part.

[1] http://www.mail-archive.com/markdown-discuss@six.pairlist.ne...

Re: GNU sed 4.2.2 released, maintainer resigns

#35

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

Jare wrote: post #29
btilly wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't the open source movement overlap quite heavily with the ideals of free software? Not really. Open source can be described as a marketing campaign to convince people who don't care about free software to produce/accept it. The catch is that the people who are most attracted to that marketing campaign are attracted precisely because they do not care about free software ideals. Even worse, when you're motivated…

> Open source can be described as a marketing campaign to convince people who don't care about free software to produce/accept it On the other hand, Free Software can be described as an attempt by certain fanatics to hijack the idea of open source code sharing, in order to advance their own ideals.

Sure, you could frame it that. However, the historical timeline of both of those terms (in that FS was coined long before OS) would suggest that your interpretation may not be the best one.

That being said, I am certainly aware of the many, many practical difficulties with the GPL, but that doesn't stop it being one of the best (IMO, of course) events in software in the last thirty years.

Re: GNU sed 4.2.2 released, maintainer resigns

#36

Post by btilly »

Jare wrote: post #29
btilly wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't the open source movement overlap quite heavily with the ideals of free software? Not really. Open source can be described as a marketing campaign to convince people who don't care about free software to produce/accept it. The catch is that the people who are most attracted to that marketing campaign are attracted precisely because they do not care about free software ideals. Even worse, when you're motivated…

> Open source can be described as a marketing campaign to convince people who don't care about free software to produce/accept it On the other hand, Free Software can be described as an attempt by certain fanatics to hijack the idea of open source code sharing, in order to advance their own ideals.

I think that my characterization is significantly less controversial. For instance Bruce Perens (original author of the open source definition) says that the open source definition was ...conceived as a program to market the free software concept to people who wore ties.

On the other hand your characterization strikes at the heart of the BSD vs GPL argument as it is viewed by BSD proponents.

Re: GNU sed 4.2.2 released, maintainer resigns

#37

Post by CJefferson »

belorn wrote: post #27

I find the "rant" and the linked post by Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos sadly missing any direct details over what the actual issues are. From reading it, one could get the idea that all the problem stems from GNU coding standard being archaic and not updated for modern programming. Okey, I am skipping all the rant about FSF not funding software projects to pay developers, or that the GNU brand is not "hot", but both feels…

Just on your comment of legal support. One of his major complaints is that actually he is not getting the legal support he wants, and he thinks that he could do better by himself.

Re: GNU sed 4.2.2 released, maintainer resigns

#38

Post by crag »

w1ntermute wrote: post #26
juddlyon wrote: post #24

I wouldn't characterize that as a rant, Rails is a Ghetto was a rant. This was more of a reasoned venting. Too bad though, the guy seems like he's poured a lot of himself into these projects (from an outsider looking in).

Rails is a Ghetto, for those who haven't read it: http://web.archive.org/web/20080103072111/http://www.zedshaw... A classic rant by Zed Shaw.

I love that rant. I still (re)read it. Gives me a few laughs every time.

Re: GNU sed 4.2.2 released, maintainer resigns

#39

Post by belorn »

CJefferson wrote: post #37
belorn wrote: post #27

I find the "rant" and the linked post by Nikos Mavrogiannopoulos sadly missing any direct details over what the actual issues are. From reading it, one could get the idea that all the problem stems from GNU coding standard being archaic and not updated for modern programming. Okey, I am skipping all the rant about FSF not funding software projects to pay developers, or that the GNU brand is not "hot", but both feels…

Just on your comment of legal support. One of his major complaints is that actually he is not getting the legal support he wants, and he thinks that he could do better by himself.

Is there a place where this complaint is posted? I know about the one time in regard to Werner Koch, and in which a legal problem arrived, and was subsequently fixed, but where FSF did not inform Koch about the fixing. To my understanding, that was a mistake in communication from FSF and was later resolved.

Re: GNU sed 4.2.2 released, maintainer resigns

#40

Post by bjourne »

MatthewPhillips wrote: post #6

Why is Stallman still BDFL if he hasn't contributed a meaningful amount of code in years? Let him be the spokesperson so he gets the attention he desperately needs and leave the coding standards to people who code.

I wish people would stop parroting that stupid lie. RMS is curently heavily involved in GNU Emacs development and has been for many years. Just check the mailing list sometime.
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