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How Fairphone built the Fairphone Gen 6+

arstechnica.com

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Re: How Fairphone built the Fairphone Gen 6+

#171

Post by palata »

jampekka wrote: post #13
Valodim wrote: post #10

Not an expert, but I recently heard that apparently not everything is perfect in fairphone land: https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/24134-devices-lacking-stand...

Seems you have to compromise on HW openness and ethics vs paranoia.

> vs paranoia

I really would like to mention that many times, using /e/OS or LineageOS (or the likes) means that you get worse security than Stock Android.

It would be fine to run /e/OS or LineageOS on a Pixel, assuming those Android systems are not too slow with updates (my experience with my /e/OS phone was that they were 4 years behind as compared to Stock Android).

But really, if you have a Pixel, it doesn't really make sense to use something other than GrapheneOS IMO.

So to me it's really:

- GrapheneOS if you can

- Stock Android vs an alternative otherwise

Re: How Fairphone built the Fairphone Gen 6+

#172

Post by neobrain »

palata wrote: post #167
neobrain wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not big on this general line on argument, but one point in particular: > And of course, fairphone’s hardware and OS are nothing to write home about. For the freedom and security nerds they’re better off with GrapheneOS on Pixel or whatever upcoming Motorola phones will support it. For the "freedom nerds", FP is one of the only (if not the only?) vendor to have official support for microG-based operating systems,…

> For the "freedom nerds", FP is one of the only (if not the only?) vendor to have official support for microG-based operating systems, seamless OTA updates and everything included. I am not sure what you are trying to say here. I have never had an Android system that did not have OTA updates. Everything included... I usually like to install the apps I want? As for microG, I think it's debatable. Is it better to have…

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Re: How Fairphone built the Fairphone Gen 6+

#173

Post by palata »

realusername wrote: post #32
Valodim wrote: post #10

Not an expert, but I recently heard that apparently not everything is perfect in fairphone land: https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/24134-devices-lacking-stand...

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> they also compare the security to the "Android Open Source Project" as if it's a real thing

It is very much a real thing. You can build AOSP from sources and install it on a phone. Many Android devices run that (e.g. drone controllers).

> Is certainly much better than my Samsung flagship

Oh yeah, that's for sure. To share my experience, in terms of updates for me it has been GrapheneOS >>> Stock Android > /e/OS. I was running LineageOS/Cyanogen a decade ago but I don't remember and it was a different time anyway.

Re: How Fairphone built the Fairphone Gen 6+

#174

Post by palata »

moffkalast wrote: post #20
Valodim wrote: post #10

Not an expert, but I recently heard that apparently not everything is perfect in fairphone land: https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/24134-devices-lacking-stand...

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> It's not like any other device meets their ridiculous standards either

I don't think it's ridiculous to want the ability to relock the bootloader, for instance? Do you realise that if you cannot do that, you just break the whole Android security model right away?

Re: How Fairphone built the Fairphone Gen 6+

#175

Post by eleventen »

prmoustache wrote: post #160
btschaegg wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had the same experience. Repeatedly. IMO it's the software, not the hardware. The issues always start/get worse with a big update to Android or the main Google apps.

running the official bloatware (firmware) I presume? It happened to me when I was using shitty brands like Xiaomi that include a lot of malware and spyware in their official firmwares. Not anymore on grapheneOS (and /e/os on my daughter's phone).

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Re: How Fairphone built the Fairphone Gen 6+

#176

Post by palata »

moffkalast wrote: post #73
subscribed wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are devices meeting these basic standards right now, and the entire family of them, no less. GOS are vocal about safety and security of all the devices, not just seriously insecure Fairphones, and this article is about something different altogether, that's misinformation they've been hit with several times. Fair criticism is fair, but yours is fabrications.

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A problem I see is that GrapheneOS has a history of being extremely blunt about the shortcomings of alternatives, and of course alternatives (and users of alternatives) don't like getting that feeling that maybe they have been compromising on... something.

At least that's how I felt when I starting reading more after a few years of using /e/OS on my Fairphone 3. And the more I read, the more I realised that GrapheneOS was usually technically correct (their communication used to be a different story, but recently I feel like it has become a lot more professional, focusing on the technical side).

Really, the vast majority of technical criticisms I see against GrapheneOS are misinformed. I'm not saying that the commenters purposely say lies. Just that it all is technically non-trivial, and I totally understand that most people don't really understand how the Android security model works, for instance.

All that to say: I don't think that there is hypocrisy on the GrapheneOS side. They are very consistent on what they are trying to do.

Re: How Fairphone built the Fairphone Gen 6+

#177

Post by palata »

subscribed wrote: post #162
moffkalast wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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At the moment there is no other hardware manufacturer making similarly secure android phones. *NONE* There is no android hardware coming close. If there is, please name it. As far as I know it's only some unspecified, upcoming Motorola flagships. If you call the unwilling, pragmatic choice an "intense hypocrisy", it's pretty clear to me you're simply driven by emotions and tribalism, that the facts don't matter. Are…

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Re: How Fairphone built the Fairphone Gen 6+

#178

Post by palata »

fsflover wrote: post #104
OroPla wrote: post #74

I've always been a bit curious about Fairphone, but as I only get phones that cost less than $200 (and use them until they physically break), I'll probably never get one. Still only on my second smartphone, so I'm not worried about producing more e-waste.

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Isn't the Pinephone getting super old now? And it was already very slow when it was released...

Re: How Fairphone built the Fairphone Gen 6+

#179

Post by LM358 »

greggoB wrote: post #36
eleventen wrote: post #34

Are ya'll really repairing your phones? I replace mine when it can't run Google Maps smoothly anymore. After 4-5 years, on every phone I've ever had, user interactions begin to lag noticeably. Apps launch much more slowly. Intense graphical apps like maps become frustrating to use. At some point I can't take it anymore and replace the phone, long before its physical parts or battery have worn out.

I'm typing this from a Galaxy S10 I got in 2020, with Lineage 22 (Android 15) running on it. For sure it isn't the snappiest, but my only real performance issue is loading gifs on Signal, which takes several seconds for some reason. Just tried maps now, actually still fairly fine for me.

No VoLTE on any Samsung phone running non-stock OS is a dealbreaker.

Sent from my Galaxy S10 running LOS

Re: How Fairphone built the Fairphone Gen 6+

#180

Post by palata »

gib444 wrote: post #150
rustcleaner wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While yes I am on GrapheneOS' side on these issues, I'm surprised nobody clones the GrapheneOS repo and simply disables the minimal handful of features which block it from working on devices. Maybe calling the clone CarbonOS? If MTE is required to boot GrapheneOS and Fairphones don't have MTE, then Fairphone clones GrapheneOS and disables MTE for its images. Graphene has so many features beyond just hardware security…

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