Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is no way Fermat could have fit that in the margin. Definitely vindicated.
I am really interested in whether AI will find a significantly easier (1920 level or so) proof of FLT.
Formalizing Fermat's Last Theorem
251–260 of 526 posts
Re: Formalizing Fermat's Last Theorem
#252Earlier quoted context omitted.
Godel proved that any system expressive enough to produce an arithmetic is incomplete. He initially proved it for the peano axioms but then it got generalized. ZFC can produce an arithmetic. Also, before being arrogant and demanding explanations, you should give them first for your claims
> expressive enough to produce you understand that "expressive enough to produce" are not obvious elements of zfc, that's some average consumer napkin math and not strict formalization.
Re: Formalizing Fermat's Last Theorem
#253Earlier quoted context omitted.
It sounds plausible they spent more, given the output tokens (6 billion of them) would cost $300k at API prices and presumably there will have been many more input tokens than output tokens.
Unlikely, api pricing includes a healthy profit margin (as near as we can tell from the outside) which they wouldn’t charge themselves.
Building the LLM that could do this work in 11 days cost multi billions.
The economics probably only make sense if LLMs prove to be a benefit to almost everyone in a way we can all accept.
Otherwise this cost a lot more than we’d otherwise pay. It was incredibly fast though. But we all know: cost, speed, quality. Pick two.
Re: Formalizing Fermat's Last Theorem
#254Earlier quoted context omitted.
Most people want more life. For most people it's also the most terrifying part of "the natural human experience". If you're happy to die, why be bothered by others' trying to live longer? You won't be around. And assuming people can finance it themselves, is it really a problem for society?
Because living longer is a huge drain on resources that could be better spent on other things. End of life care is expensive and rarely results in a "good" life for the the life being extended.
Re: Formalizing Fermat's Last Theorem
#255Earlier quoted context omitted.
It sounds plausible they spent more, given the output tokens (6 billion of them) would cost $300k at API prices and presumably there will have been many more input tokens than output tokens.
Unlikely, api pricing includes a healthy profit margin (as near as we can tell from the outside) which they wouldn’t charge themselves.
Re: Formalizing Fermat's Last Theorem
#256> Along the way, it wrote 13 million lines of Lean and proved 29,500 intermediate theorems. Pretty insane. I suppose it lends further credence to the idea that anything that can be shown to be correct can be done by a model.
> Pretty insane.
I don't think the count of "intermediate theorems" tells you anything. Here's something from an algebra textbook:
---
Let G be a group, let H be a subgroup [of G], and let N be a normal subgroup [of G]. Then
H ∨ N = HN = { hn | h ∈ H, n ∈ N }.
---
This says that the subgroup closure of H and N, the smallest subgroup that contains them both, is identical with the set consisting of all products of an element of H (on the left) and an element of N (on the right).
Part of the proof:
---
Suppose that x and y are elements of [the set of products hn]. Then x = h₁n₁ and y = h₂n₂, where hᵢ ∈ H and nᵢ ∈ N. Now h₂⁻¹n₁h₂ = n₃ ∈ N, as N is normal in G. So n₁h₂ = h₂n₃. In this case
xy = (h₁n₁)(h₂n₂)
= (h₁(n₁h₂)n₂)
= (h₁(h₂n₃)n₂)
= (h₁h₂)(n₃n₂),
which shows that xy has the correct form.---
This will translate directly into lean. If you do it this way, you will prove at least 10 of what would be described in lean as 'intermediate theorems':
∃ h₁ ∈ H, ∃ n₁ ∈ N, x = h₁ * n₁
∃ h₂ ∈ H, ∃ n₂ ∈ N, y = h₂ * n₂
h₂⁻¹ * n₁ * h₂ ∈ N
n₁ * h₂ = h₂ * n₃
x * y = (h₁ * n₁) * (h₂ * n₂)
(h₁ * n₁) * (h₂ * n₂) = (h₁ * (n₁ * h₂) * n₂)
(h₁ * (n₁ * h₂) * n₂) = (h₁ * (h₂ * n₃) * n₂)
(h₁ * (h₂ * n₃) * n₂) = (h₁ * h₂) * (n₃ * n₂)
h₁ * h₂ ∈ H
n₃ * n₂ ∈ N
But none of these would be called an "intermediate theorem" in a paper proof.Re: Formalizing Fermat's Last Theorem
#257> Along the way, it wrote 13 million lines of Lean and proved 29,500 intermediate theorems. Pretty insane. I suppose it lends further credence to the idea that anything that can be shown to be correct can be done by a model.
There is no way Fermat could have fit that in the margin. Definitely vindicated.
Re: Formalizing Fermat's Last Theorem
#258Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not just lean, but math foundation itself, I am not strong expert, but my understanding is that there is no fully recognized axiomatic foundation for modern math, all proposals could lead to some weird results.
ZFC is probably the biggest foundation, and only Choice is apparently controversial. The results aren't that weird, they're just different and occasionally more useful than using !Choice.
Re: Formalizing Fermat's Last Theorem
#259Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Goedel Incompleteness -- the proof that the the axiomatic itself cannot be proven, like using ZFC to prove ZFC, but that's another topic. Godel theorems are for systems with basic arithmetic, zfc doesn't include arithmetic, thus are not object of Godel theorems.
> Moreover, Robinson arithmetic can be interpreted in general set theory, a small fragment of ZFC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zermelo%E2%80%93Fraenkel_set_t...
its hard to me to tell what this means formally(as I said I am not expert). There is no "interpret" operator in zfc. I believe what it says if you add some robinson axioms + some logical rules on top of zfc, you can carry your results.
Re: Formalizing Fermat's Last Theorem
#260> Along the way, it wrote 13 million lines of Lean and proved 29,500 intermediate theorems. Pretty insane. I suppose it lends further credence to the idea that anything that can be shown to be correct can be done by a model.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding something about how all this works, but can we have any confidence that 13 million lines of AI-generated Lean code are... correct? How have we not merely substituted one verification problem for another?