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Corporate America is getting hooked on open-source AI

nytimes.com

201–210 of 301 posts

Re: Corporate America is getting hooked on open-source AI

#201
post #174
post #26

Every larger company I talk to these days has an active project on moving away from OpenAI and Anthropic to open models. And they’re actively shifting, as the article says, so the threat is far from theoretical. Unless they both dramatically slash prices then they’re in big trouble. Neither of them can afford to do that and both desperately need to convince the street that the opposite will happen if they want any ho…

The open models are good because of distillation, which the US labs are actively working against via not revealing CoT ever and now you can see with OpenAI Astra 6 not even having a lot of CoT equivalents being emitted as tokens. Once the anti-distillation stuff is in place the open distillation models will probably start having larger and larger gaps. If the companies survive the next few years, which they probably…

If that was the case the major labs would have done that.

They’re burning cash like there’s no tomorrow. They desperately need to show that they have a real business and not just a giant burning pile of cash doing academically interesting things. If they could simply sell models that are 95% as good at 1/10th the price they’d do that. They’re losing the enterprise sector because they’ve not done that.

Re: Corporate America is getting hooked on open-source AI

#202
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we accept the premise that the top Chinese labs are simply distilling and can't compete otherwise: why don't US labs simply do the same thing? Distill their own models and slash their costs by 99% while keeping the same quality output. It should be a piece of cake if even the open labs can figure it out, after all. One way or another they're getting the same results as proprietary labs, with a fraction of the hard…

Because distillation-only is a quick performance shortcut that only lets you get to the level of the thing your distilling for the most part or a little bit worse and does not allow you to actually progress past it. It's like only being able to make VHS copies of videos, and maybe do some basic video editing without being able to actually go out with cameras and make new movies. To actually have something competitive…

That doesn't really answer the question. What they do internally for training the next model is a separate issue. I'm talking about the models they offer publicly.

Per the article, companies are dropping OpenAI+Anthropic (partly) because of costs. If distilling is so simple and easy, why doesn't OpenAI take this "quick shortcut" and serve a self-distilled model externally, so they can charge reasonable prices and stop bleeding customers? Surely they can at least match the Chinese labs' efficiency, right? Wouldn't more customers and less opex look good for the IPO?

Re: Corporate America is getting hooked on open-source AI

#203
post #174
post #26

Every larger company I talk to these days has an active project on moving away from OpenAI and Anthropic to open models. And they’re actively shifting, as the article says, so the threat is far from theoretical. Unless they both dramatically slash prices then they’re in big trouble. Neither of them can afford to do that and both desperately need to convince the street that the opposite will happen if they want any ho…

The open models are good because of distillation, which the US labs are actively working against via not revealing CoT ever and now you can see with OpenAI Astra 6 not even having a lot of CoT equivalents being emitted as tokens. Once the anti-distillation stuff is in place the open distillation models will probably start having larger and larger gaps. If the companies survive the next few years, which they probably…

Basically your argument relies on two claims, both of which must be true.

1. Competitors to OpenAI and Anthropic are good because of distillation.

2. OpenAI and Anthropic will come up with some methods for preventing distillation in the future.

Both of these are dubious imo. For RLVR tasks like coding in particular, you definitely don’t need continuous distillation to improve, otherwise OpenAI and Anthropic themselves would not be able to improve because there is no better model to distill from.

Re: Corporate America is getting hooked on open-source AI

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but also remember what happened to Mark trying to do a currency? You're giving him too much credit if you think he figured anything on his own - this is the guy who thought 'metaverse' was a good idea.

Exactly . Even that guy could read the situation.

[deleted]

Re: Corporate America is getting hooked on open-source AI

#205
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look up how many Chinese are pursuing a computer science degree. Chinese AI labs do well because they have the best AI people coming out of a huge talent pool.

And yet their models are all behind the US models. I don't think LLM progress is strictly correlated with the number of computer science degree holders in a specific country. [There are many examples of distillation attacks.]( https://cyberpress.org/anthropic-claude-ai-distillation-atta... ) Of course, you could argue this is just a form of "learning" from other intelligent systems, and this is arguably what LLMs hav…

If they are slightly behind, but spend much less money then they made smarted decisions

Re: Corporate America is getting hooked on open-source AI

#206
post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The open models are good because of distillation, which the US labs are actively working against via not revealing CoT ever and now you can see with OpenAI Astra 6 not even having a lot of CoT equivalents being emitted as tokens. Once the anti-distillation stuff is in place the open distillation models will probably start having larger and larger gaps. If the companies survive the next few years, which they probably…

If that was the case the major labs would have done that. They’re burning cash like there’s no tomorrow. They desperately need to show that they have a real business and not just a giant burning pile of cash doing academically interesting things. If they could simply sell models that are 95% as good at 1/10th the price they’d do that. They’re losing the enterprise sector because they’ve not done that.

I'm not sure why this style of cocksure Zitronesque comment is so trendy. It seems strange to make this statement, as if one has teleported to September 2026 from the end of the universe. Commenters in this vein aren't looking back to see that Anthropic and OpenAI models were the only truly usable ones for software development at the beginning of the year. Even Deepseek, which was and is revolutionary, was not useful for independent code commits longer than a few dozen lines.

It certainly is possible that Anthropic and OpenAI are doomed to bankruptcy, but without a known drop in revenue it seems exceptionally confident to make such a certain claim.

Re: Corporate America is getting hooked on open-source AI

#207
post #99

> AT&T turned to artificial intelligence models from Anthropic and OpenAI in recent years to help with customer service, call transcription and coding. [...] > By May, open models accounted for 20 percent of AT&T’s A.I. use. That has since risen to 40 percent and may jump to 60 percent in the coming months, Mr. Markus said in an interview. This is missing a crucial detail. We know they "help with customer service, ca…

> Gemma 4 is great, but really, Llama, in 2026?

I'd assume the author is just getting confused because of ollama and llama.cpp and all the other ecosystem "llama" that are still in use. Llama really did kick off the open models thing

Re: Corporate America is getting hooked on open-source AI

#208
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because distillation-only is a quick performance shortcut that only lets you get to the level of the thing your distilling for the most part or a little bit worse and does not allow you to actually progress past it. It's like only being able to make VHS copies of videos, and maybe do some basic video editing without being able to actually go out with cameras and make new movies. To actually have something competitive…

That doesn't really answer the question. What they do internally for training the next model is a separate issue. I'm talking about the models they offer publicly. Per the article, companies are dropping OpenAI+Anthropic (partly) because of costs. If distilling is so simple and easy, why doesn't OpenAI take this "quick shortcut" and serve a self-distilled model externally, so they can charge reasonable prices and sto…

Anthropic, OpenAI, GDM, and Meta spend more on training than other labs by an order of magnitude. If they felt safe reducing this spend they would. These labs fear getting outcompeted.

Re: Corporate America is getting hooked on open-source AI

#209
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet their models are all behind the US models. I don't think LLM progress is strictly correlated with the number of computer science degree holders in a specific country. [There are many examples of distillation attacks.]( https://cyberpress.org/anthropic-claude-ai-distillation-atta... ) Of course, you could argue this is just a form of "learning" from other intelligent systems, and this is arguably what LLMs hav…

If they are slightly behind, but spend much less money then they made smarted decisions

From a business perspective, I fully agree. I was responding to a very different premise and claim above.

Re: Corporate America is getting hooked on open-source AI

#210
post #26

Every larger company I talk to these days has an active project on moving away from OpenAI and Anthropic to open models. And they’re actively shifting, as the article says, so the threat is far from theoretical. Unless they both dramatically slash prices then they’re in big trouble. Neither of them can afford to do that and both desperately need to convince the street that the opposite will happen if they want any ho…

This is exactly true, I get annoyed by Claude one day and switch to something else, and the only thing that's ever keeping me tied towards Claude is the ability to search my old chats easily. But Claude also makes it really hard to do that, so what am I even really paying for? Time to extract all my data, put it into a sqlite with FTS5 and make sure I never rely on the overly-opinionated, low-thinking PMs from these…

Just use a proxy and log everything.
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