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Corporate America is getting hooked on open-source AI

nytimes.com

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Re: Corporate America is getting hooked on open-source AI

#161

Post by phoghed »

Henchman21 wrote: post #74
syntaxing wrote: post #22

I swear, Qwen 3.8 27B @ Q8 is smarter than Sonnet 5 most of the time. Why wouldn’t corporate America self host at this point, especially with better options like Deepseek Flash and GLM 5.3 flash that’s a middle ground between Sonnet and Opus

> Why wouldn’t corporate America self host at this point Because they've been trained to think "cloud-first" for a decade?

Still a ton of non tech companies doing a digital / tech transformation out there too lol. Maybe some so far behind they still have the real estate and rack space to get ahead on this one

Re: Corporate America is getting hooked on open-source AI

#162

Post by nutjob2 »

pianopatrick wrote: post #118
cmiles8 wrote: post #26

Every larger company I talk to these days has an active project on moving away from OpenAI and Anthropic to open models. And they’re actively shifting, as the article says, so the threat is far from theoretical. Unless they both dramatically slash prices then they’re in big trouble. Neither of them can afford to do that and both desperately need to convince the street that the opposite will happen if they want any ho…

Maybe open AI and Anthropic could just license their models to run on your own hardware. So a fixed cost instead of per token pricing or subscription with limits

This is the future, because the market will demand it.

I think there will be separate and huge markets for models, hardware and compute. That will maximize competition and innovation.

Why? Because even Blind Freddy can see the huge usefulness and power of these (and future non-LLM) models and no-one in their right mind is interested in becoming OpenAI's or Anthropic's bitch. Those companies have tickets on themselves.

Given the recent behavior of tech companies and the US administration, no one trusts either anymore.

Re: Corporate America is getting hooked on open-source AI

#163

Post by majorchord »

WarmWash wrote: post #159
epistasis wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Post-IPO I'd trust the American models far far less than the Chinese models. The most insidious advertising in the world is about to be surfaced as people use LLMs to look for product recommendations.

It's wild that people are so lost in the sauce of social media that they have no qualms handing over all their data to an authoritarian ethno state with a single ruler who appointed themselves for life with unrestricted unilateral control over every aspect of the state. And here we are calling for collapse because mom might get recommended Gain instead of Tide.

What's even more wild to me is that basically ALL modern electronics and all modern batteries are made from raw materials sourced by forced and child labor (and sometimes both)... yet the vast majority of the entire world just turns a blind eye to it.

https://gcdnb.pbrd.co/images/gKMYRcEIeE9j.png

Re: Corporate America is getting hooked on open-source AI

#164

Post by epistasis »

WarmWash wrote: post #159
epistasis wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Post-IPO I'd trust the American models far far less than the Chinese models. The most insidious advertising in the world is about to be surfaced as people use LLMs to look for product recommendations.

It's wild that people are so lost in the sauce of social media that they have no qualms handing over all their data to an authoritarian ethno state with a single ruler who appointed themselves for life with unrestricted unilateral control over every aspect of the state. And here we are calling for collapse because mom might get recommended Gain instead of Tide.

Sorry, how does running a local model hand over my data?

You are very confused about the security and what can happen here.

Re: Corporate America is getting hooked on open-source AI

#165

Post by Karrot_Kream »

piva00 wrote: post #155
cmiles8 wrote: post #26

Every larger company I talk to these days has an active project on moving away from OpenAI and Anthropic to open models. And they’re actively shifting, as the article says, so the threat is far from theoretical. Unless they both dramatically slash prices then they’re in big trouble. Neither of them can afford to do that and both desperately need to convince the street that the opposite will happen if they want any ho…

Same experience, all my other friends in the industry report the same; at work we went from a huge push for ChatGPT last year to switching to Claude, back to ChatGPT when it became cheaper than Claude, and in parallel a deployment of open models being trialed with mechanisms to route to other models when needed (and based on pricing). Over time I can imagine us becoming mostly open models on our deployments when hard…

ChatGPT or ChatGPT Work or Codex? Are folks at your company still just using a chatbot to do work? (If so, this is quite surprising, as I find harness-based agent usage to be much much better than chatbotbot agent usage.)

Re: Corporate America is getting hooked on open-source AI

#166

Post by gizajob »

kittikitti wrote: post #115
throwitaway222 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If companies are really doing this, then we're saying they have no problems spending tens of millions to get somewhat decent TPS and then having their employees complain they are timesliced and getting lots of timeouts because their org has 500 employees?

I'm not sure why someone hasn't developed a company offering services that distributes AI across all idle or under-utilized VM's and PC's for enterprises in order to serve open sourced models. Outside of the electricity bill, there's no additional expenditure and you get the AI. We've all seen the office spaces where there's 200 empty computers on a floor. Combined, it's something like 500 cores at ~3 Ghz each and ar…

Vibe code that app and business. It’s a great idea like a kind of SETI@Home for business but I’m not sure the compute and latency will really be good enough unless you’re talking about a business with literally thousands of machines sitting half idle and always on, or always mostly on. i imagine it would take maybe 50-100 MacBook Pros running such a service to get to Claude level performance for one or two people.

Re: Corporate America is getting hooked on open-source AI

#167

Post by epistasis »

majorchord wrote: post #163
WarmWash wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's wild that people are so lost in the sauce of social media that they have no qualms handing over all their data to an authoritarian ethno state with a single ruler who appointed themselves for life with unrestricted unilateral control over every aspect of the state. And here we are calling for collapse because mom might get recommended Gain instead of Tide.

What's even more wild to me is that basically ALL modern electronics and all modern batteries are made from raw materials sourced by forced and child labor (and sometimes both)... yet the vast majority of the entire world just turns a blind eye to it. https://gcdnb.pbrd.co/images/gKMYRcEIeE9j.png

This is very confused, first the world does not turn a blind eye, and by having US purchasers of these products the US is actually forcing a big change in the standards for the better due to purchasing power. In particular the US has avoided huge amounts of potential purchase in solar, largely under the justification of avoiding forced Chinese labor.

Second, the "ALL" qualification is extremely wrong, as only small fractions of these products in the US could ever be sourced to the human rights violations cited here.

Re: Corporate America is getting hooked on open-source AI

#168

Post by kelvinjps10 »

cmiles8 wrote: post #54
intrasight wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are most definitely is a moat - but it works both ways. The railguards in the models create moats keeping customers out. And the cost to build a modern agentic model is in the 10 figure range and growing. This is an expensive arms race that is going to create moats.

But most commodities are the same way. It’s super expensive to drill for oil. I need oil and I’m in no position to mine my own because of the massive capital investment. But it doesn’t stop it from being a pure commodity. I couldn’t care less which company drilled for the oil… it’s all the same to me. Models are increasingly no different. OpenAI and Anthropic are a gas station saying “buy our gas for 10x the price!”…

I don't see any difference where I put gas from one place to another. But there is definitely differences between one model and another or even plans themselves .

Re: Corporate America is getting hooked on open-source AI

#169

Post by piva00 »

Karrot_Kream wrote: post #165
piva00 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same experience, all my other friends in the industry report the same; at work we went from a huge push for ChatGPT last year to switching to Claude, back to ChatGPT when it became cheaper than Claude, and in parallel a deployment of open models being trialed with mechanisms to route to other models when needed (and based on pricing). Over time I can imagine us becoming mostly open models on our deployments when hard…

ChatGPT or ChatGPT Work or Codex? Are folks at your company still just using a chatbot to do work? (If so, this is quite surprising, as I find harness-based agent usage to be much much better than chatbotbot agent usage.)

No, the full suite: ChatGPT Work, Codex, chat, Deep Research, etc., same for Claude with Code, Cowork, etc. And any new release of model or tool is trialed and assessed.

Just too many products to exhaustively list, it's a big tech company, we're trialing a lot under the sun to find workflows, tools, integrations, including a lot of bespoke internal research, there's a large ML department since almost the inception of the company.

Re: Corporate America is getting hooked on open-source AI

#170

Post by FuriouslyAdrift »

siliconc0w wrote: post #148

My hot take is that open models don't really save you money and introduce more router complexity and security risk (because you're now sending your company data through more less trustworthy providers). Look at cost per task not cost per token and the pareto curve is largely owned by closed models. Just use Fable 5.1/Opus max for the hardest problems, GPT Sol high as your workhorse, and maybe terra for async batch st…

We run Gemini fast for random end user queries for general staff.

We have our own on-premise inference server (quad MI300A) that runs Kimi 2.8 extremely well and we transitioned all heavy work to it since it's basically instantaneous for the whole team. It's a good enough solution and we will hit break even before the end of the year already.

Not everyone needs frontier models and availability is frequently much more important than a lot of companies realize.

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