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Corporate America is getting hooked on open-source AI

nytimes.com

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Re: Corporate America is getting hooked on open-source AI

#31

Post by kakacik »

_the_inflator wrote: post #27
petcat wrote: post #7

> Some U.S. firms remain reluctant to use Chinese A.I. models because of concerns over regulation and data privacy. AT&T researches Chinese models but is not using them, Mr. Markus said. Instead, it is working with popular alternatives made by American companies such as the Gemma A.I. model from Google and the Llama A.I. models from Meta. This makes sense since corporations require legal certainty, and using an open…

Exactly. See TikTok trouble as example and quite honestly, try a local open source LLM and ask it to use profanity, paint nudes - the LLM doesn’t answer the question of it is from OpenAI or Google. The thing is that needs more attention is reverse engineered a LLM which is highly fascinating. I tried it, but it seems I am not there yet to put it mildly. It requires serious effort. I am just speculating but can LLMs b…

Since most folks still somehow review the code, I find it highly improbable, it would become visible quickly. Unless say compiling Unix parts for example. But thats compiler work and not llm.

Re: Corporate America is getting hooked on open-source AI

#32

Post by honr »

petcat wrote: post #23
Waterluvian wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current U.S. regime is also replacing some amount of that legal certainty with regime fealty. Picking Chinese options over American ones probably runs a risk of upsetting their leader. I've got to imagine American companies are weighing this factor in their decisions.

That's certainly one factor, yes. But even before getting to that part I think the bigger issues for Big Corp legal teams is mostly around the legal ambiguity of the models themselves. What representations are made about the training data? What jurisdiction governs the license? If somebody alleges that the model infringes their IP, what rights does AT&T have? Counterparty risk is a lot more straight-forward to evalua…

To me, the legal concerns seem blown out of proportion. If you use open weight models (of dubious origin) to generate code, you can still verify them with code review and tests and other methods, used to verify human output, right? That is still a great win, maybe not as much as having AI write all the code, but that would be a reasonable point in control vs quantity spectrum for most solid and well made products.

But if you let LLMs talk to people (customers, for example) directly, then yes, you need an LLM provider that you can hold responsible.

Re: Corporate America is getting hooked on open-source AI

#33

Post by majorchord »

kakacik wrote: post #31
_the_inflator wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. See TikTok trouble as example and quite honestly, try a local open source LLM and ask it to use profanity, paint nudes - the LLM doesn’t answer the question of it is from OpenAI or Google. The thing is that needs more attention is reverse engineered a LLM which is highly fascinating. I tried it, but it seems I am not there yet to put it mildly. It requires serious effort. I am just speculating but can LLMs b…

Since most folks still somehow review the code, I find it highly improbable, it would become visible quickly. Unless say compiling Unix parts for example. But thats compiler work and not llm.

Jia Tan would disagree.

The overwhelmingly vast majority of open-source code isn't actually looked at or audited. Yes it's there for all to see, but that doesn't mean it's doing any good at the moment, in this context.

Re: Corporate America is getting hooked on open-source AI

#34

Post by rolisz »

petcat wrote: post #23
Waterluvian wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current U.S. regime is also replacing some amount of that legal certainty with regime fealty. Picking Chinese options over American ones probably runs a risk of upsetting their leader. I've got to imagine American companies are weighing this factor in their decisions.

That's certainly one factor, yes. But even before getting to that part I think the bigger issues for Big Corp legal teams is mostly around the legal ambiguity of the models themselves. What representations are made about the training data? What jurisdiction governs the license? If somebody alleges that the model infringes their IP, what rights does AT&T have? Counterparty risk is a lot more straight-forward to evalua…

Haven't american companies outsourced manufacturing to China for a long time now? I think they have enough experience with dealing with China.

Re: Corporate America is getting hooked on open-source AI

#36

Post by SamInTheShell »

petcat wrote: post #7

> Some U.S. firms remain reluctant to use Chinese A.I. models because of concerns over regulation and data privacy. AT&T researches Chinese models but is not using them, Mr. Markus said. Instead, it is working with popular alternatives made by American companies such as the Gemma A.I. model from Google and the Llama A.I. models from Meta. This makes sense since corporations require legal certainty, and using an open…

Read the license again.

Re: Corporate America is getting hooked on open-source AI

#38

Post by majorchord »

syntaxing wrote: post #22

I swear, Qwen 3.8 27B @ Q8 is smarter than Sonnet 5 most of the time. Why wouldn’t corporate America self host at this point, especially with better options like Deepseek Flash and GLM 5.3 flash that’s a middle ground between Sonnet and Opus

Agreed. And conversely, American models can also just as easily be secretly influenced for bad things, or be more tightly controlled by the government, to corporate America's own detriment.

Re: Corporate America is getting hooked on open-source AI

#39

Post by r_lee »

cmiles8 wrote: post #26

Every larger company I talk to these days has an active project on moving away from OpenAI and Anthropic to open models. And they’re actively shifting, as the article says, so the threat is far from theoretical. Unless they both dramatically slash prices then they’re in big trouble. Neither of them can afford to do that and both desperately need to convince the street that the opposite will happen if they want any ho…

I knew that there was no real moat from the very start, I mean, these things were close enough from the very start, how could it not result in a race to the bottom, especially as you can't really prevent distillation reliably?
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