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Google Antigravity TOS: 3rd party usage can get Google account suspended

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Re: Google Antigravity TOS: 3rd party usage can get Google account suspended

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A politically impossible outcome that isn't worth hanging our hopes on. A more realistic approach is legislation that either forbids providers from suspending or otherwise limiting access to any government integrated system or simply forbidding these types of integrations altogether.

> A politically impossible outcome that isn't worth hanging our hopes on. > A more realistic approach is legislation that either forbids providers from suspending or otherwise limiting access to any government integrated system or simply forbidding these types of integrations altogether. There's more history in the US of successful legislation aimed at breaking up big companies than at that sort of specific narrow te…

> There's more history in the US of successful legislation aimed at breaking up big companies than at that sort of specific narrow technically-aware well-executed regulation

We live in a much different world today than during the trust busting era. Extreme concentration is the status quo of today's economy and it's happening across basically every sector and industry.

Lina Khan as the head of the FTC under the most legislatively prolific Democratic president of the last 30 years was completely powerless to break up anything. Even Trump and an army of partisan DAs that were frothing at the mouth to dismantle Trump's enemies have failed to do so.

Just yesterday Google prevailed against the threat of a breakup of their ad businesses which is perhaps the single most compelling example of anticompetitive abuse by big tech besides maybe the Apple ecosystem.

This trend is only going to accelerate as skilled workers age out of the economy and white collar economic activity aggregates into a handful of massive tech companies.

That's all without factoring in that government quid pro quo is now defacto legal and these companies have very deep pockets for donations.

There are many other factors I could mention but the point is that nobody with any power wants to break up these companies.

Re: Google Antigravity TOS: 3rd party usage can get Google account suspended

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A politically impossible outcome that isn't worth hanging our hopes on. A more realistic approach is legislation that either forbids providers from suspending or otherwise limiting access to any government integrated system or simply forbidding these types of integrations altogether.

> politically impossible Is it? Are tech companies so popular that voters would revolt if politicians proposed break-ups? They would not be the first - Standard Oil and Bell were also powerful corporations that got split.

What the voters want is of minimal importance. There are near zero politicians that want to break up big tech, and absolutely zero that would be able to actually achieve a break up if they tried. You can see my reply to a sibling comment where I outline why this is the case.

Re: Google Antigravity TOS: 3rd party usage can get Google account suspended

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should break these companies apart - they should not have that level of power.

A politically impossible outcome that isn't worth hanging our hopes on. A more realistic approach is legislation that either forbids providers from suspending or otherwise limiting access to any government integrated system or simply forbidding these types of integrations altogether.

Impossible? Why? Think different, think AT&T.

Re: Google Antigravity TOS: 3rd party usage can get Google account suspended

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A politically impossible outcome that isn't worth hanging our hopes on. > A more realistic approach is legislation that either forbids providers from suspending or otherwise limiting access to any government integrated system or simply forbidding these types of integrations altogether. There's more history in the US of successful legislation aimed at breaking up big companies than at that sort of specific narrow te…

> There's more history in the US of successful legislation aimed at breaking up big companies than at that sort of specific narrow technically-aware well-executed regulation We live in a much different world today than during the trust busting era. Extreme concentration is the status quo of today's economy and it's happening across basically every sector and industry. Lina Khan as the head of the FTC under the most l…

> Lina Khan as the head of the FTC under the most legislatively prolific Democratic president of the last 30 years was completely powerless to break up anything.

Only because she was blocked by both Republicans and Democrats who are sold out to the same plutocrats. I agree with the parent that the problem remains very simple and is a matter of balance of powers. Any fine-grained regulation will be simply ignored by those people who are above all laws.

EDIT: Maybe i was a little too lenient to her. I mean, if a politician really wanted to change the status quo, they'd appeal to the public to help change the balance of power, which Lina Khan never did.

Re: Google Antigravity TOS: 3rd party usage can get Google account suspended

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government haven't noticed that email became as important as regular mail, unfortunately.

It's noticed... selectively. Ours sends revenue service notifications exclusively via email, a lossy system... and legally assumes you got it.

But.. Internet mail is not a lossy system. Quite the opposite!

Unless providers do insane things (e.g. accept then discard), it is much safer than snail mail, where messages may not arrive and not cause the sender to be notified of non-delivery either. With email, the sender gets explicit per-recipient-and-message feedback on what the recipient provider has accepted responsibility (to not lose them) for.

Re: Google Antigravity TOS: 3rd party usage can get Google account suspended

#226
post #30

Banning the entire account rather than AI access is wildly user hostile. People have years of emails and calendars on their accounts. And then you get to fight the support bots and eventually go to the actual unofficial Google support - asking hn whether anyone knows someone with a pulse at Google.

Yes, this is why I avoid using my Google account for anything really. Risks from banning are not proportional. It's better to always use separate email logins, and when possible, non-Google services.

Re: Google Antigravity TOS: 3rd party usage can get Google account suspended

#228

Apart from the products not being very competitive this is the main reason I'm reluctant to use any Google models / AI products. The account is way to precious thing to lose based on some AI classifier misfiring and then you know there's good route to get it reenabled.

Couldn't one just make a separate Google account for the models/AI products? I usually have multiple accounts with most providers, multiple banks, multiple brokerages, etc.. It really is not that difficult to manage. Though, I only have one HN account, fwiw.

That's what I do. Both for this reason, and because I don't want to log into my personal gmail on work devices.

I don't necessarily feel safe, though, and have moved my important stuff off of gmail.

Re: Google Antigravity TOS: 3rd party usage can get Google account suspended

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't believe government regulation is the answer While I agree with where you're coming from in spirit, if you want to push this then you've got to do the work of actually coming up with workable concrete approaches rather than hand waving against a whole general category of action. The problem is that digital communications lend themselves to centralized power, and power vacuums inevitably get filed by somethin…

What you're saying is super reasonable and the ways I think about it too sometimes. I have two thoughts on this and I'm not sure how clear I can be. 1. I think sometimes the shape of a technology pushes a shape of society. But there's a feedback loop here. The like 15 years of tech were dominated by ad-tech which lead to algorithmic feeds that made engagement the game. This had an accidental effect of enraging people…

(Sorry for the delay in replying. There is definitely an analog of Gresham's law for discussions)

I completely agree about the feedback loops. They're mutual feedback loops though, and causality can go both ways. We're currently stuck with a strong attractor of surveillance-based software. It's certainly possible to escape from the local minimum, but requires a lot of activation energy to escape it (compelling functionality, features, ease of use, etc, to prime its own network effects).

I don't think it was ads per se, but rather the centralizing software architecture of AJAX (et al). Everyone wanted to build things that were "easy" for "everyone" to use, how to make money came later. Or going back even earlier, if "the web" had been designed around something like content centric networking rather than HTTP.

On "tech moment right now is ripe for it" - for me, it has felt this way for the past twenty five years! I generally agree about pessimism as well, so let's just say at this point I'm tired. I certainly don't want to dissuade you from pouring new energy into software that is going to change the world [for the better]. But I'm also cautioning you to not reject other angles of reform!

Further on the pessimism point, isn't shying away from government (ie collective) action itself a form of pessimism? I'm pretty pessimistic about groups (herds) of people in general (things always end up going "sideways" due to opportunists). But looking at the structure of US politics it seems there is a large contingent of "government can never work" that ends up running interference whenever de jure government tries to reign in the corpos (which tend to act as de facto government), creating a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Or putting my general point another way, in terms of the culture point you made elsewhere - our mass culture is currently strongly steeped in centralized political action/narratives. If you want our mass culture to change to value technical decentralization and privacy, then one of the main things you'd expect to manifest itself is a call for centralized/government action, ala privacy regulation, right? We can certainly lament the centralized political culture, but unless you're talking about changing two aspects of our culture simultaneously, then that basically is what it is.

Re: Google Antigravity TOS: 3rd party usage can get Google account suspended

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't believe government regulation is the answer While I agree with where you're coming from in spirit, if you want to push this then you've got to do the work of actually coming up with workable concrete approaches rather than hand waving against a whole general category of action. The problem is that digital communications lend themselves to centralized power, and power vacuums inevitably get filed by somethin…

IP is super decentralised. Digital communications could have led to a more decentralised society than ever before, and in the beginning , they end. But in the end, they didn't, because large actors figured out how to exploit them.

De/centralization is not an either or, but more like a yin and yang. There are aspects of IP that are highly centralized.

1. Assignment of addresses is centralized. Even though it's federated (ie distributed), authority still flows logically from one single authoritative view. And even though individual networks can choose to go against that central view, diverging too much prevents them from talking to one another (ie most of the bargaining is on a take-it-or-leave-it basis, rather than something more nimble or adaptive)

2. It's a protocol for communication between nodes. Reusing node addresses as service/contents addresses leads to services being inherently centralized on those (logical) nodes. Not a problem with IP itself, but definitely an attractive nuisance that made problems for things naively layered on top of IP like HTTP(S) and DNS.

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