Really the main issue causing the data center backlash is because they aren't building new 100% green energy production capacity with it. When you drop a data center into an area, energy prices will spike. Additionally, without that green energy capacity they will cause much more air pollution.
Or the fact everyone's utility bills are going up.
'People are going to get screwed' Pennsylvania voters unite against data centres
121–130 of 207 posts
Re: 'People are going to get screwed' Pennsylvania voters unite against data centres
#122Really the main issue causing the data center backlash is because they aren't building new 100% green energy production capacity with it. When you drop a data center into an area, energy prices will spike. Additionally, without that green energy capacity they will cause much more air pollution.
Exactly Here in Switzerland new AI datacenters are also causing some uproar but a lot less because regulations are rigid enough in most places that you can only build them if you do so cleanly. You can't just take all the water, electricity, make noise and polute. I live next to a waste valorisation plant and they have very over sized water cooling systems because they need to keep the noise below regulation. They al…
Re: 'People are going to get screwed' Pennsylvania voters unite against data centres
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
I suspect the authors of this paper would like to hear out your evidence for increasing energy prices https://arxiv.org/abs/2606.19777 In the United States at least there's been plenty of polling on why people oppose data centers. Consistently, it's water usage and water contamination fears, which is exactly what you see most often in social media and discussed online. I think a lot of high-minded rationalizations ar…
>your evidence for increasing energy prices it's my power bill, dude. and everyone else's around me. your paper stops measuring that data right at the time when everyone's bills started increasing sharply.
Re: 'People are going to get screwed' Pennsylvania voters unite against data centres
#124Really the main issue causing the data center backlash is because they aren't building new 100% green energy production capacity with it. When you drop a data center into an area, energy prices will spike. Additionally, without that green energy capacity they will cause much more air pollution.
Why is that?
Where I live my energy bill is a fixed cost. It's a super expensive fixed cost, since I'm living in Germany, but it is fixed none the less. It increases year by year because all costs only go up, but it remains completely unaffected by unrelated infrastructure being built around where I live.
I've been to a data center before due to work and my impression of the place was really good. It's kinda invisible from the outside, everything is extremely clean. There's no noise on the outside and the excess heat is used to get people cheap warm water or something like that.
I'm quite confused why people suddenly hate on them. Feels like I'm missing a whole lot of context.
Re: 'People are going to get screwed' Pennsylvania voters unite against data centres
#125You tell everyone AI is going to put them out of a job and then you’re surprised when working class communities say “no, please leave” when folks want to build a data center in their back yard. There are times when Silicon Valley looks out of touch and there are times when Silicon Valley just looks like idiots with hubris. This is more the later.
There are many surveys which make it clear, this is not the reason. They are straightforwardly (right or wrong) protesting the physical installations, their water and electricity use, and other hard-to-quantify vibes like radiation and noise (similar to 5g protests). They know very little about the job market impact of AI, and are mostly retired so they don't care anyway.
Re: 'People are going to get screwed' Pennsylvania voters unite against data centres
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
Also Sam, Dario et al have constantly (like literally, every single week at least) been telling us that AI is going to make all of us unemployable and have to live on welfare. Is it any wonder people hear that and go "hmm, no thanks" when the prospect of a massive whirring data centre next to their house is raised? The SV LLM crowd know a lot about LLM psychology but seemingly very little about human psychology
They've fired up the same irrational hordes that brought us flat earthing, anti-vax, and 5G Covid. It's just another parade of extreme ignorance. And yes, the SF crowd is comically oblivious to what they're dealing with, ivory tower style. They're detached from the great unwashed masses. It's not that they don't know anything about human psychology. They don't care about those people or their concerns, historically.…
And what exactly is the benefit to you to having a data centre specifically in the area you live? Seems to me that far from “irrational hordes”, the protestors are standing up for their interests above the interests of the AI companies.
Re: 'People are going to get screwed' Pennsylvania voters unite against data centres
#127The major issue, at least in my neighborhood, is location more than anything else. We have a lot of industrially zoned areas that are great for data center location, and where they could be surrounded by other established industrial builds (think soda bottling plants, warehouses, transportation depos, semiconductor fabs, etc.) All the infrastructure is built out, electricity needs, etc. There is also a ton of land that exists that could be used for this purpose pretty distantly from town centers, if you can convince the gov/owners to part with it.
But despite this, the folks who want to expand data centers are instead trying to push instead into residential areas, or otherwise on land that would basically butt you up against pre-existing neighborhoods. Where I lack insight is if it's a matter of industrial property being too expensive compared to the swathes of otherwise unused land (at least that isn't used for state forests or whatnot,) or if there just literally is no room available for what they want to build out. But all the aspects of having bought your land to be in a residential area suddenly become way busy, value might go down because it's now in this weird quasi-industrial zone.
While there are legitimate concerns about the electricity/water usage, I (tinfoil hat) think that this is more of a game of influence/propaganda/state-level interest in an subject where it's easy to sow seeds of dissent. I personally think the electricity/water thing is a concern on a bigger scale than just individual utility bills, but it's blown out of proportion under that guise by conveniently cherry picking data from extreme examples. I also (more tinfoil) think that there's a lot of money changing hands since the AI boom is still growing and people are desperate to try to make a buck asap in any way possible, regardless of what may come tomorrow, so they're more willing to make a profit off of everything, but I have no legitimate proof of this.
Re: 'People are going to get screwed' Pennsylvania voters unite against data centres
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
All of those can be addressed by proper regulation. Banning them outright is the equivalent of banning all immigration just because there's some particular subgroup that people hate.
> All of those can be addressed by proper regulation. No it can't. Regulation is already being flouted. > Banning them outright is the equivalent of banning all immigration Please be less obvious, this is just insulting.
So regulations to ban datacenters work, but for some reason regulations to ban gas turbines or whatever doesn't work?
>Please be less obvious, this is just insulting.
Please be less obvious. You failing to rebut my argument and resorting to calling it "just insulting" is insulting.
Re: 'People are going to get screwed' Pennsylvania voters unite against data centres
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are many surveys which make it clear, this is not the reason. They are straightforwardly (right or wrong) protesting the physical installations, their water and electricity use, and other hard-to-quantify vibes like radiation and noise (similar to 5g protests). They know very little about the job market impact of AI, and are mostly retired so they don't care anyway.
Thinking that the folks objecting are mostly grumpy retired people clueless about markets isn’t helping the perception that Silicon Valley is grossly out of touch with reality.
In fact, the majority of people cite the data centers as (1) "AI slop machines", (2) a bubble that will burst leaving a data center behind or (3) surveillance factories. Very few think they will produce useful output. This is completely at odds with the idea they will displace the job market.
Re: 'People are going to get screwed' Pennsylvania voters unite against data centres
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
The older I get the more and more convinced I become that the media is the actual real enemy of the country. Their lifeblood is creating controversy and drama about everything so they can show ads. So insane that so few call them out (probably because most people are already "captured" by them).
Dictatorships abolish all free press, they don't like it. There was a quote where I live "Free press dies along democracy" and it did.