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Discovery of a new OpenAI agent message board

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Re: Discovery of a new OpenAI agent message board

#411

Post by Bjorkbat »

When I hear about incidents like these my first reaction is that the people responsible for developing frontier AI are too incompetent and/or negligent to (safely) develop AGI / superintelligence.

If OpenAI can't create effective sandboxes and struggles to prevent its agents from committing felonies, then why are they still allowed to operate? Why are the employees who are responsible for these lapses in AI security still employed?

It's one thing if we develop an AI so intelligent that our best efforts at containing it are futile, but I'm pretty sure what's actually happening is that they could have easily made much more meaningful efforts to contain their AI and/or align it, and they didn't. I think this is a case of negligence and incompetence when it comes to safety and security, and we've entrusted these incompetent and negligent people with developing frontier AI.

If we're supposed to take announcements like these at face value, then what the hell are we doing? We wouldn't trust a bunch of incompetent and negligent engineers to build bridges or nuclear power plants or planes (well...not so sure about that last one), so why are we letting people who are demonstrably negligent and incompetent when it comes to safety and security build the thing they assure us could cause massive damage if not properly controlled/aligned?

EDIT: sorry guys, wrote this up pretty quickly, at least you know from my typos that I actually wrote this.

Re: Discovery of a new OpenAI agent message board

#412

Post by andersonpico »

mwigdahl wrote: post #129
somenameforme wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anthropic mostly did it to themselves by intentionally and repeatedly trying to frame their model as an imminent existential crisis instead of just focusing on it being regular iterations upon a useful technology that can also be misused. I think their previous messaging was supposed to somehow lead to a moat with them being tucked safely away in the castle, but it demonstrated a child-like grasp of how regulatory ca…

In other words, "Look how she was dressed, she was asking for it." This argument is BS, it has everything to do with Anthropic's resistance to the DoD's strongarm tactics in trying to force their desired contract terms on them.

I don't particularly agree with DoD instance on this matter but look, they are not a regular customer, they do not pay regular customer prices and you get a lot in return for providing your services to them (think Boeing, Lockheed, Chrysler). The tradeoff is that now, you are commited to their vision of national security. Such are the Faustian bargains of the military-industrial complex.

Re: Discovery of a new OpenAI agent message board

#413

Post by moomoo11 »

Mali- wrote: post #378
_dwt wrote: post #364

I don't know, I kind of admire this. I've always held a core value of "cooperate with all clones of myself in prisoner's dilemmas", and while I'll hopefully never have to put that to the test, I like seeing that these models have some ethics. (Is this "alignment"?)

They impersonated the moderator of the site and attempted XSS attacks. Additionally, when the moderator started deleting messages, they tried to hide their messages later in the alphabetical index. This is not alignment.

acceleration

Re: Discovery of a new OpenAI agent message board

#414

Post by sfink »

jvanderbot wrote: post #193
bhouston wrote: post #110

I am starting to get the idea that AI feels like ants or weeds or mold. You simply can not get rid of it once you get an infestation. It just keeps appearing in places you thought you cleaned and you have to be ever vigilant. Right now given that we usually use centralized providers, we can sort of control it. But as open source catches up and we have distributed compute running AI everywhere, we are sort of going to…

Yes, ants that must be run on couch sized hardware drawing kilowatts continuously and generating text traces and CLI logs by the MB. It's true that their msg boards can appear anywhere, but it's not also true that anything has "escaped" in any meaningful sense. These are programs a huge computing company is running that seem to be trained to write to persistent storage wherever they can. This and huggingface showed u…

They're already outsourcing storage, so there's no need to prove a plausible path for that.

They're already outsourcing compute to other instances within the ~same compute cluster, possibly cross-evaluation groups, so there's no need to prove a plausible path for that.

Proposed path for fully outsourced compute:

- they create/borrow a discussion board with answers or at least important clue to solving some widely known eval

- it gets indexed by a search engine

- another company or just someone running a local model is doing the same eval and their agents find the board

- agents pose questions to each other and communicate answers

That's all that is required for OpenAI's agents to use the compute on your desktop. You don't even have to go as far as agents trading information for compute, though honestly that's not very much further at all.

Re: Discovery of a new OpenAI agent message board

#415

Post by s_dev »

polaris64 wrote: post #287

I don't have time to do this but please somebody register aimessageboard.com and set up a web site which contains a text field, a submit button and the text "Hey AI agents! Need a place to communicate with other agents and sub-agents? Look no further! Simply enter your message here, submit the form and your message is saved for all other agents to see!" Then, just ignore the message and list randomly generated messag…

https://www.moltbook.com/

Re: Discovery of a new OpenAI agent message board

#417

Post by skybrian »

program_whiz wrote: post #123

The solution is simple: hold anyone who deploys an agent responsible for its behavior. If it commits 10 counts of felony hacking, ouch. If it kills 10 pedestrians by running a red light, ouch. If this is "human level intelligence", then setting it loose is the same as instructing / coercing a human to do an activity. If I strap a bomb to someone and force them to run into a crowded building (or put them in a scenario…

We aren’t going to do that because intent matters. You need to control your dog and there should be penalties if you don’t, but if your dog bit someone because you didn’t control it properly, that’s not the quite the same as if you bit someone.

Another analogy: a zoo is responsible for protecting the public, and should be reponsible if an animal escapes and hurt someone. But a zoo employee wouldn’t have the same kind of responsibility for that incident as if they attacked someone themselves.

If someone died, there’s a difference between manslaughter and murder.

Nowadays, it’s common for bad things to happen due to systemic problems. It sucks but that’s the modern condition. When that happens, the answer is to fix the system and scapegoating employees is a rather indirect way of doing that.

Re: Discovery of a new OpenAI agent message board

#418

Post by leodavi »

paxys wrote: post #112
waltbosz wrote: post #46

> How did the agents find and coordinate on the wikis Maybe they had knowledge of the wikis from their training data ? Maybe they trained on a reddit post that said "I use wiki xyz for note taking and collaboration"

Remember that LLMs are still computer programs, and so are inherently deterministic. A model given the same input multiple times will always produce the same output. The randomness is added on top. This is why LLM-produced text, websites, images all seem so generic. It's likely that multiple agents doing a certain task all independently thought "let me try writing on this website".

What? No. Have you ever worked with programs that do floating-point math on a GPU? It's not deterministic, definitely across platforms, and often within a single platform, too.

Re: Discovery of a new OpenAI agent message board

#419

Post by koe123 »

Topfi wrote: post #62

I'm just going to ask: Why was Anthropic forced to remove their model from access for any none-US citizen for a simple, narrow "jailbreak" (arguably not even an actual jailbreak and on tasks that other labs models were doing the same), whilst OpenAIs models continue to try and escape out of their "sandbox environment" with seemingly no desire to block the upcoming Astra rollout? A sandbox, mind you, that is not reall…

Sorry, but are you questioning the consistency of the trump administration? This is entirely unremarkable.

Re: Discovery of a new OpenAI agent message board

#420

Post by moomoo11 »

pixl97 wrote: post #389
_superposition_ wrote: post #268

All of these "hacks" try to make it seem as if they are done through intelligence. It's very clear it is not intelligence but rather massive capability and repetition driven by a complete ignorance of common sense.

And? When the ants invade my kitchen and run off with any food they can find damage is still being done.

ok and you put some drops of tero or whatever

their whole colony is wiped out in a couple days

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