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'People are going to get screwed' Pennsylvania voters unite against data centres

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Re: 'People are going to get screwed' Pennsylvania voters unite against data centres

#91

Post by mannanj »

Anyone who has never lived next to a data center is commentating on the side lines without experience about what it’s actually like.

Lots of these commentaries miss the following: - noise and uncomfortable vibrations making nearby habitual living challenging - rises costs of power and water - more traffic and disruption to traveling patterns

The first is a big deal. These companies have a history of refusing to address noise and disruptions to neighbors personal health. They simply don’t care because they only care about the money. Its greed at an immense level. Until you’re ready to accept you would be comfortable with a data center as your neighbor you have 0 skin in making decisions for others who do.

And the rich bourgeoisie people who are so misguided about this: mark Cuban, Kevin O’Leary famous shark tank billionaires, who claim “you’re experiencing Chinese propaganda about data centers” and probably even anyone on these forums who makes a strong claim without experience, would never ever accept living next to a data center. They are sideline commentators and should take responsibility for the harms to local people.

Re: 'People are going to get screwed' Pennsylvania voters unite against data centres

#92

Post by bluGill »

WarmWash wrote: post #32
mikestew wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The local government gets property taxes from these data centers. Not if they get a sweetheart tax deal. Why do you think folks are so pissy? It’s like a sports stadium next to your house in that the principals get tax breaks, eminent domain, and other considerations, but it makes noise every day(not just weekends) and you don’t get to go to the game.

The sweetheart deals are usually from the state, sometimes the county. Town budgets tend to be so small that ~$20m/yr will have the council falling over themselves to approve it. The problem, from the cases I have looked at, seems to be that towns want to do dumb shit with this money rather than just cut residents a tax break.

The sweetheart deals I've seen has been the state approving things that mostly affect the locals. A large part of property tax goes to local governments who were given no input in the deal.

Re: 'People are going to get screwed' Pennsylvania voters unite against data centres

#93

Post by anon84873628 »

luxuryballs wrote: post #46
MatekCopatek wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly are you getting at? Datacenters do use potable water from municipal sources for evaporative cooling. Are you claiming that's not true? Here's a recent source: https://pacinst.org/publication/how-much-water-do-data-cente...

Why and how would they contaminate the water supply though? Sounds like a municipality problem, a water consumer shouldn't be feeding back into the system, or is it being caused by poorly executed construction practices? Maybe when they first pipe in or something is being left open during construction, this seems like it shouldn't happen if things are being done properly, water supply systems are not a new technology…

The construction itself absolutely alters local watersheds:

1. Replacing forests and fields with concrete buildings prevents rainwater from filtering into the soil, which stops local aquifers from recharging.

2. During storms the rain runs off impervious surfaces and can cause downstream flooding.

3. Heavy land grading washes loose sediment into nearby waterways, destroying aquatic habitats and turning private drinking wells muddy. (That especially gets local homeowners angry and gets lots of video views).

And then you have the ongoing operation of open cooling systems:

4. Evaporative cooling systems discharge concentrated mineral brine that spikes the salinity of freshwater ecosystems.

5. Cooling water is treated with toxic biocides and anti-scalants that can contaminate local water basins. It can also contain leached copper, zinc, and PFAS.

6. Discharging warm wastewater depletes oxygen in streams and alters the overall ecology.

Of course all of these issues could be mitigated to a reasonable degree with proper care and effort:

>this seems like it shouldn't happen if things are being done properly

Do you want to bet your whole town on things being done properly right now?

Re: 'People are going to get screwed' Pennsylvania voters unite against data centres

#94

Post by ratelimitsteve »

inferniac wrote: post #74
doublepg23 wrote: post #73

Many things divide us here: Wawa or Sheetz; cheesesteaks or pierogi; Eagles or Steelers; but I very glad we could come together on this.

why? data center opposition is just morons who don't know what they're talking about 99% of the time

>99% of the time

99% is an interesting figure because that's roughly how much my energy bill has increased despite no significant change in my usage due to data center demand on the grid

Re: 'People are going to get screwed' Pennsylvania voters unite against data centres

#95

Post by ratelimitsteve »

simondotau wrote: post #83
hightrix wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Concerns about noise pollution and increased electricity costs are just morons? What about concerns about air pollution from unregulated diesel generators? Or using large amounts of water in drought prone areas?

I wouldn’t be so coarse, but mostly yes. Data centres are hardly new, and the subset of legitimate criticisms problems are hardly unique.

so what you're saying is that the problems people have with new data centers are real and well-documented?

Re: 'People are going to get screwed' Pennsylvania voters unite against data centres

#96

Post by zamalek »

estearum wrote: post #72
maxerickson wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You misunderstood I think. They aren't arguing water is a bigger problem than energy. They are arguing that negative perception is mostly focused around water use.

They suggested (and linked to paper arguing) that data centers are not causing energy prices to go up. I am saying the paper's scope of analysis (up to 2024) renders it pretty much irrelevant.

And that's very suspicious given that they published the paper in 2026. Was it somehow impossible to find energy prices for 25+26?

Re: 'People are going to get screwed' Pennsylvania voters unite against data centres

#98

Post by [deleted] »

triceratops wrote: post #36
lordgilman wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect the authors of this paper would like to hear out your evidence for increasing energy prices https://arxiv.org/abs/2606.19777 In the United States at least there's been plenty of polling on why people oppose data centers. Consistently, it's water usage and water contamination fears, which is exactly what you see most often in social media and discussed online. I think a lot of high-minded rationalizations ar…

People should stop citing that paper. It makes the opposite point they think it makes. I think most people just read the first couple of sentences in the abstract. "We estimate that data centers caused average retail electricity rates to fall modestly in the United States from 2015 to 2024 using an instrumental variables approach." But the data center backlash really started 2 years ago. It's 2026 now. Getting new en…

[deleted]

Re: 'People are going to get screwed' Pennsylvania voters unite against data centres

#99

Post by gruez »

hightrix wrote: post #81
inferniac wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why? data center opposition is just morons who don't know what they're talking about 99% of the time

Concerns about noise pollution and increased electricity costs are just morons? What about concerns about air pollution from unregulated diesel generators? Or using large amounts of water in drought prone areas?

All of those can be addressed by proper regulation. Banning them outright is the equivalent of banning all immigration just because there's some particular subgroup that people hate.

Re: 'People are going to get screwed' Pennsylvania voters unite against data centres

#100

Post by ratelimitsteve »

lordgilman wrote: post #21
kerhackernews wrote: post #2

Really the main issue causing the data center backlash is because they aren't building new 100% green energy production capacity with it. When you drop a data center into an area, energy prices will spike. Additionally, without that green energy capacity they will cause much more air pollution.

I suspect the authors of this paper would like to hear out your evidence for increasing energy prices https://arxiv.org/abs/2606.19777 In the United States at least there's been plenty of polling on why people oppose data centers. Consistently, it's water usage and water contamination fears, which is exactly what you see most often in social media and discussed online. I think a lot of high-minded rationalizations ar…

>your evidence for increasing energy prices

it's my power bill, dude. and everyone else's around me. your paper stops measuring that data right at the time when everyone's bills started increasing sharply.

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