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What if everything we know about recycling is wrong?

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Re: What if everything we know about recycling is wrong?

#61

Post by schiffern »

Procrastes wrote: post #31
schiffern wrote: post #5

This was pointed out to me a while ago, but it seems to hold true: Whether someone appreciates a modern engineered landfill is a useful Shibboleth for distinguishing real evidence-based environmentalism from narcissistic signaling "environmentalism." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRx_dZawN44

I'm one of those folks who appreciate a well-engineered landfill. We had a great one in Nevada County, CA. Now that I've moved back to Texas, I've learned the difference the hard way, although not as hard as the people who lost their homes.[1] 1. https://abc7amarillo.com/news/local/officials-say-stinky-fir...

You know it's funny, I originally wrote "a good modern engineered landfill," but I felt it was getting too wordy so I deleted the unnecessary word. Based on how my words (apparently) came across, clearly I should've kept it!

Indeed, I should say, a well-managed modern engineered landfill is great, but a poorly-managed modern engineered landfill is terrible. I honestly didn't think this needed to be said, that it was too obvious and too cliche, but indeed on this point of fact we find ourselves in violent agreement with each-other! ;) Cheers mate

Re: What if everything we know about recycling is wrong?

#62

Post by schiffern »

sustainalady wrote: post #44

As someone who works in sustainability, and life cycle analysis, it's quite frustrating to see someone who is clearly not technically trained lay out an argument for single-use based on LCA data. Establishing a functional unit is critical for this type of analysis, otherwise yeah, it looks like every single-use item is "more sustainable" than a reusable. That isn't actually how you measure a sustainability scenario i…

Any good blogs or articles you can recommend?

Re: What if everything we know about recycling is wrong?

#63

Post by unrented7977 »

grebc wrote: post #56
sustainalady wrote: post #44

As someone who works in sustainability, and life cycle analysis, it's quite frustrating to see someone who is clearly not technically trained lay out an argument for single-use based on LCA data. Establishing a functional unit is critical for this type of analysis, otherwise yeah, it looks like every single-use item is "more sustainable" than a reusable. That isn't actually how you measure a sustainability scenario i…

Want to get people onboard? Make it cheaper to reuse/recycle.

Reuse is literally free.

Re: What if everything we know about recycling is wrong?

#65

Post by ChristopherDrum »

josefritzishere wrote: post #17

I have a cotton bag in my car. I've been using it for 20 years. It was used 173 times probably in the first 3 years. I have a ceramic coffee mug on my desk. It's moved with me through multiple jobs over the last 25 years. It's been used tens of thousands of times. Some goods are naturally disposable like a Kleenex, but much more could be reusable. The math is right there.

Yes, that is the same point I came in to make about mugs. The author cites "1,000 uses" like its some grand, rarely achieved accomplishment in the life of a mug, when 1/3 of that count represents a single year of once-a-day usage. My two mugs are 20 and 10 years old, and when I use one I use it multiple times a day for weeks. Both have far exceeded "1,000 uses" by now, with probably another 30K (?) uses before I die.

Re: What if everything we know about recycling is wrong?

#66

Post by tomjakubowski »

ch4s3 wrote: post #57
natex wrote: post #38

This author does what other pro-industry mouthpieces do: 1. Reference a real scientific study with a genuine but conditional result, 2. Remove the qualifications associated with the study, so they can 3. Make a much stronger rhetorical conclusion. Or they simply willfully misreport the results.It's exhausting exercise to have to continuously fact-check these shills. Here's just one example from the article: "Approxim…

I think their use of that paper is a bit sloppy, but you're sort of doing a similar thing by making a strong rhetorical claim "This author does what other pro-industry mouthpieces do" while ignoring the point of the paragraph, "Richer countries have near-universal refuse collection and almost none of their waste winds up in the ocean", which is broadly true[1]. North America and Europe account for 5.1% or ocean plast…

Worth noting that according to the data in that article, India is below the world average on a per capita basis, roughly 0.7x the world average. The Philippines is 25x the world average per capita.

Re: What if everything we know about recycling is wrong?

#67

Post by happymellon »

Yizahi wrote: post #50

The language gives off some climate denialist vibes, but the substance is nonetheless true - recycling become both a magical word which is forbidden to be challenged on merit, and it also become a crude hammer to just bash peons to distract from real problems and real solutions. I also appreciate that finally someone says that DAC should happen as a more effective climate change tool. Lately I'm getting a feel that i…

It makes so much sense.

Single use > than reusing.

This is why coal is so much cheaper than solar. Oh.

There is so much cherry picking here they could make a pie.

Energy use to make a cotton bag is greater than a plastic bag, ignoring any other metric, therefore we should just throw everything in the landfill because who reuses a bag more than once???

A lot of people it turns out.

Greenwashing is certainly a problem, but it's almost always "recycling" programs for plastics they can't recycle. See chip/crisp bags for example.

Re: What if everything we know about recycling is wrong?

#68

Post by pocksuppet »

happymellon wrote: post #67
Yizahi wrote: post #50

The language gives off some climate denialist vibes, but the substance is nonetheless true - recycling become both a magical word which is forbidden to be challenged on merit, and it also become a crude hammer to just bash peons to distract from real problems and real solutions. I also appreciate that finally someone says that DAC should happen as a more effective climate change tool. Lately I'm getting a feel that i…

It makes so much sense. Single use > than reusing. This is why coal is so much cheaper than solar. Oh. There is so much cherry picking here they could make a pie. Energy use to make a cotton bag is greater than a plastic bag, ignoring any other metric, therefore we should just throw everything in the landfill because who reuses a bag more than once??? A lot of people it turns out. Greenwashing is certainly a problem,…

but it's not reused

most recycling is just a differently labeled landfill owned by a cartel somewhere in Asia

Re: What if everything we know about recycling is wrong?

#70

Post by ch4s3 »

tomjakubowski wrote: post #66
ch4s3 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think their use of that paper is a bit sloppy, but you're sort of doing a similar thing by making a strong rhetorical claim "This author does what other pro-industry mouthpieces do" while ignoring the point of the paragraph, "Richer countries have near-universal refuse collection and almost none of their waste winds up in the ocean", which is broadly true[1]. North America and Europe account for 5.1% or ocean plast…

Worth noting that according to the data in that article, India is below the world average on a per capita basis, roughly 0.7x the world average. The Philippines is 25x the world average per capita.

I almost think the per-capita lens is less useful here, because the issue isn't consumption/use per se but the state capacity to collect trash and dispose of it properly. I also suspect that within India the majority of people produce little to no plastic trash that enters the ocean.
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