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GPT-6 Astra

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Re: GPT-6 Astra

#811

The ARC-AGI-3 scorecard is extremely misleading given that it clearly states itself that "with [the responses API] harness, we estimate Sol would score in the ballpark of ~30%." but it shows a score of 7.8% for GPT-5.6 Sol presumably since if they updated the percentage for GPT-5.6 Sol to the score it would receive with the responses API harness they used for GPT-6 Astra they'd have to do the same for the percentage…

> I am reasonably confident that there's essentially nothing that I am better than Fable at despite generally being substantively above average on human benchmarks I genuinely don’t understand how an adult can say this with a straight face. I can take any single of my hobbies, start a mildly advanced conversation with Fable about the hobby and, within 5-10 turns, get it to contradict itself about something fundamenta…

People are ultimately capable of self deception. Believing that one is 'generally ... substantively above average on human benchmarks' may be more indicative of the brittleness of the claimant's human benchmarks.

Your observations expose the brittleness of the benchmarks being used for Fable, where the 'reasonable confident' claimant is working in the problem space of those two benchmarks, and you're demonstrating the failure at depth of the very capability facade for the model.

Sure, both the model and the confident human get the first layer right in some benchmark, but at least the model, and probably the human as well reach a collapsing probability of accuracy quite quickly. They may be completely and unconditionally right that Fable is more intelligent than they are, but that has little relevance at intelligence in depth as measured against your hobbies and the risk of unsafe or false responses.

Being smarter than a select group of people under test conditions is not conclusive regarding AGI. Moving the goalposts to declare AGI via a shallow benchmark, when a model could be proven wrong by almost anyone with basic competency given a few turns of iterative depth is where the 'grift' resides.

We're so far from anything approaching actual AGI, and it is highly speculative to infer that the current approach to Machine Learning as applied in LLM is even on a path that leads to AGI. But sales and promotions teams gotta pose, and we can all hate both the game and the players.

Re: GPT-6 Astra

#812
post #365

It's fun, but every new model release makes me even less interested to create cool stuff. Like, what's the point, if the next AI can do it in 5 seconds?

Then learn how to be creative and use the ai better?

Re: GPT-6 Astra

#813

The ARC-AGI-3 scorecard is extremely misleading given that it clearly states itself that "with [the responses API] harness, we estimate Sol would score in the ballpark of ~30%." but it shows a score of 7.8% for GPT-5.6 Sol presumably since if they updated the percentage for GPT-5.6 Sol to the score it would receive with the responses API harness they used for GPT-6 Astra they'd have to do the same for the percentage…

> For the many people who resist the AGI label possibly ever being achieved, I'd be curious to hear takes on what would make you think Astra is yet to be AGI, and what would still need to be achieved for this to effectively be AGI from this point forward.

I think I have the following questions about what AGI would look like:

1. Do you expect an AGI to be able to competently do any knowledge work that an able human does today?

I think this is implied by the "General" component. I would assume that anything we call AGI would be able to do any of these tasks if given the time and reference material needed.

2. How would you expect AGI to handle edge cases? (Missing context, no known solution, under specified instructions, over specified instructions)

I would expect an agent to be able to look at the context that work exists in and correctly attenuate it's intentions for these goals. Simpler solutions, more thorough reporting, etc based on the need.

3. In my work I attend meetings, write reports, write code, research things, etc. Would AGI be able to reliably do that?

I would say that AGI would need to do this. I would classify this as the "Intelligence" component. Obtaining context, building a model of a problem, solving it, and convincing others.

4. Would it be able to inspire trust in itself? Trust can be established through verification of it's outputs, the construction of introspective tools, no hallucinations, etc.

I would say yes to this as well. It would be a component of the "Intelligence" to know that buy in is more important than the completion of a task.

To these points, will Astra be able to do these things? If not, I would hesitate to call it AGI.

Re: GPT-6 Astra

#814

OpenAI is killing it now that they are more focused. Killing projects like Sora et al have seen it go from irrelevant to level footing with Anthropic. Sol is so much better than Fable 5. Then we get Astra (yet to use it) few days after Fable 5.1 (which is very impressive). Codex is slightly better than Claude Code. Good on Sam Altman getting back to basics and turning OpenAI around.

Killing Sora was one of the worst mistakes they ever made

100% they should have not given up on video.

That announcement is when I stopped paying attention to them.

Re: GPT-6 Astra

#816

The ARC-AGI-3 scorecard is extremely misleading given that it clearly states itself that "with [the responses API] harness, we estimate Sol would score in the ballpark of ~30%." but it shows a score of 7.8% for GPT-5.6 Sol presumably since if they updated the percentage for GPT-5.6 Sol to the score it would receive with the responses API harness they used for GPT-6 Astra they'd have to do the same for the percentage…

>what would make you think Astra is yet to be AGI...

Can it detect if I feed bullshit (by bullshit I mean stuff that contradicts with its own existing "knowledge") in its training data? If not, then I think it is a good indicator that it is not intelligent at all, let alone AGI...

And I think discussions on whether these models are AGI or not are AI marketing triggered. And that is exactly what these statements are targeting....HN appear to have fallen for it, as usual...

Re: GPT-6 Astra

#817

For people skeptical of AGI. Consider the following: 15 years ago if you were the sole proprietor of these models, would you be able to hold a dozen remote junior engineer jobs? Maybe even more? These models could certainly pass all interviews with flying colors and even survive independently in a company role. I think sole ownership of AI 15 years ago could be worth north of $10 million per year. Just as rank-and-fi…

For people delirious about AGI, you don’t get to it by redefining it favorably.

Re: GPT-6 Astra

#818

The ARC-AGI-3 scorecard is extremely misleading given that it clearly states itself that "with [the responses API] harness, we estimate Sol would score in the ballpark of ~30%." but it shows a score of 7.8% for GPT-5.6 Sol presumably since if they updated the percentage for GPT-5.6 Sol to the score it would receive with the responses API harness they used for GPT-6 Astra they'd have to do the same for the percentage…

A model that can't beat gemini flash 3.8 on deepSWE is not AGI. I would not be surprised if ARC skills don't carry over to real tasks. In that case, training for ARC could even hurt real world performance. I have't looked in a while, but I wonder if there has been any research testing ARCs predictive power?

I feel like I'm completely missing something with ARC-AGI. The tasks are so limited in scale and very black and white, which do not at all map to real-life challenges.

I do think it's impressive that LLMs can reliably solve them, and I recognize LLMs are getting much better at navigating more ambiguous and expansive tasks. But I'm not impressed by any person who can solve ARC-AGIs, and nor would I even look down on a person who couldn't solve them all. I'd certainly never consider ARC-AGI results when deciding whether to hire someone.

Re: GPT-6 Astra

#819
post #713

- OpenAI claims Astra beats all benchmarks (compared to Fable and Opus, except "Humanity's Last Exam (w/ tools)"): https://openai.com/index/gpt-6-astra/ - Artificial Analysis scores Astra (max effort) as 61 points on intelligence, behind Opus 5. https://artificialanalysis.ai/models/gpt-6-astra Who is wrong here? Some benchmark results in Astra page for Fable and Opus are blank (-). What is Artificial Analysis intelli…

> Humanity's Last Exam (w/ tools)

This is one of the only benchmarks that actually matters for testing the frontier however. Other benchmarks can be gamed by simply being more persistent, but HLE is a diverse set of open-ended research-level questions. It tests domain knowledge and problem solving skills. Burning more reasoning tokens may help somewhat but not as much as e.g. coding benchmarks.

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