I sure wish this quiet street was filled with lively motor traffic :)
The death of San Francisco's Market Street
21–30 of 88 posts
Re: The death of San Francisco's Market Street
#22I wish they'd turn it into a long thin park. Keep just enough space for buses and maybe cut into the sidewalks a bit for greenery.
Re: The death of San Francisco's Market Street
#23So many things wrong with this, but let's call out one of the most obvious: > But a bus will kill a pedestrian just as easily as a car will, which is why Market Street remains empty of pedestrian traffic No citation, just pure nonsense. As a pedestrian and cyclist: bus drivers are great. They have higher licensing standards, their income is tied to maintaining a license, they're well trained and professional. Meanwhi…
I have a near total opposite view as a cyclist in France. Buses are extremely dangerous in cities, and are way louder than cars.
Re: The death of San Francisco's Market Street
#24So many things wrong with this, but let's call out one of the most obvious: > But a bus will kill a pedestrian just as easily as a car will, which is why Market Street remains empty of pedestrian traffic No citation, just pure nonsense. As a pedestrian and cyclist: bus drivers are great. They have higher licensing standards, their income is tied to maintaining a license, they're well trained and professional. Meanwhi…
I'm sure that bus drivers are safer, but it absolutely does not feel safe to bike on Market if you end up between two buses. Recently a woman died because her scooter (?) tire got stuck in the streetcar tracks and she got run over by a truck. It does not feel safe to walk or bike next to vehicles that heavy, and the street should be redesigned for better separation. Is this responsible for the lack of pedestrians? Pr…
too bad they scrapped the original Better Market plans for protected bike lanes
Re: The death of San Francisco's Market Street
#25I had a contract with a company in the SF Bay Area back in 2011-2012. I spent 50% of my time in the Bay Area, despite living in Florida. I often stayed in a San Francisco hotel and walked to a commuter bus that would take me to corporate headquarters. I visited SF on other occasions in 2015 and 2022. The contrast between 2011 and these dates was staggering. In 2011, I did not have to step around human feces in the st…
Duelling opinions! (Not really -- downtown SF has had a lot of trouble in the last few years, though as Noah notes, it's been feeling a bit better lately).
However, the trajectory isn't quite that clear, at least over a longer timeline and across the whole city. Back in the 1990s, a lot of downtown was very dodgy feeling, though mostly a block or so away from Market. Market itself varied across its length -- by the time you got to Van Ness it was becoming sketchier. Its status dipped and weaved as the city's fortunes shifted -- not necessarily corresponding exactly to economic success, but by 2011 downtown I think it was fairly "back'.
Other neighborhoods did not do so well during that time, to my memory. The strange thing about 2011 was that San Francisco survived the 2008 crash fairly well economically, so on the surface it was doing well, especially by comparison, but underlying it was a big upswell in the problems that would overtake it in 2015-2022. I'm not sure they were visible everywhere in the city.
I guess what I'm trying to say here is that San Francisco is a heavily boom and bust city, with lots of neighborhood variation in fortunes -- I think plenty of people would argue that Market's upturn has come at the expense of pushing problems out to the periphery. But I wouldn't disagree that it's still digging itself out of the COVID hole, five years on, and despite a lot of potential tax income from the current boom.
Re: The death of San Francisco's Market Street
#26I had a contract with a company in the SF Bay Area back in 2011-2012. I spent 50% of my time in the Bay Area, despite living in Florida. I often stayed in a San Francisco hotel and walked to a commuter bus that would take me to corporate headquarters. I visited SF on other occasions in 2015 and 2022. The contrast between 2011 and these dates was staggering. In 2011, I did not have to step around human feces in the st…
Duelling opinions! (Not really -- downtown SF has had a lot of trouble in the last few years, though as Noah notes, it's been feeling a bit better lately). However, the trajectory isn't quite that clear, at least over a longer timeline and across the whole city. Back in the 1990s, a lot of downtown was very dodgy feeling, though mostly a block or so away from Market. Market itself varied across its length -- by the t…
I have no doubt that SF has its ups and downs. My comment was based on my subjective experience. I'm sure we've all seen the Hollywood accounts of SF in the Dirty Harry movies. It was once bad enough to get such an impression.
I was just sad to see SF in a bust, because I genuinely enjoyed it in 2011. I can only hope that this slump resolves and that the folks who are down and out on the streets get the help they need.
I actually love SF and would love to visit again.
Re: The death of San Francisco's Market Street
#27So many things wrong with this, but let's call out one of the most obvious: > But a bus will kill a pedestrian just as easily as a car will, which is why Market Street remains empty of pedestrian traffic No citation, just pure nonsense. As a pedestrian and cyclist: bus drivers are great. They have higher licensing standards, their income is tied to maintaining a license, they're well trained and professional. Meanwhi…
>their income is tied to maintaining a license
So are car owners. Most jobs don't allow for remote work.
Re: The death of San Francisco's Market Street
#28Also like 3rd street promenade in LA. Is there a list of downtown or vibrant walkable areas that died during pandemic?
Re: The death of San Francisco's Market Street
#29So many things wrong with this, but let's call out one of the most obvious: > But a bus will kill a pedestrian just as easily as a car will, which is why Market Street remains empty of pedestrian traffic No citation, just pure nonsense. As a pedestrian and cyclist: bus drivers are great. They have higher licensing standards, their income is tied to maintaining a license, they're well trained and professional. Meanwhi…
There’s evidence for the original comment likely being incorrect. NYC turned a major street into a “busway”. So cars can enter, but they have to make the first right, so they don’t use it as a thruway. Pedestrian traffic in that area has exploded. Injuries and deaths have plummeted. As a pedestrian crossing the street is incredibly safer if there’s a massive bus driving at a steady speed (bus drivers won’t speed to c…
Seattle and SF did the same. The streets are now horror shows.
NYC is just an exception, because it has so much pre-concentrated urbanistic misery that adding a bit more is not noticeable.
Re: The death of San Francisco's Market Street
#30I do miss that mall.
When I first moved to SF I'd go for dinner and then watch movies there with friends. Became a bit of a ritual.
After those options disappeared, I'd still go regularly to peruse the Bloomingdales and Nordstrom, among other small stores.
When those disappeared I'd still visit regularly, to get some exercise (I lived nearby) or visit the food court.
Seems it's simply too large for anyone to want to take another chance on it. And yet it feels insane that a mall in the center of a major city is sitting there, abandoned while politicians discuss turning it into a soccer stadium.
I could dream up so many ways to use that space