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The browser's main thread is expensive

kciter.so

131–140 of 165 posts

Re: The browser's main thread is expensive

#131
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the same level, as a commercial game, not a tech demo scene.

There are business-level issues with web based AAA games, as I was alluding to before. Apple has a two-click payment system. If you failed a Candy Crush level and you needed to get up from the couch and get your credit card out of your wallet to buy more turns, no one would ever do it.

One thing doesn't prevent the other, yet most Web 3D is hardly any better than Flash games, with worse tooling.

Re: The browser's main thread is expensive

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>99% of the time those sites could be plain HTML and CSS, but apparently new generations don't even know how to do that, out of programming bootcamps. That is because the latest framework always fixes everything that wasn't broken before.

There is no good technical solution for rendering on the server and upgrading to an interactive experience on the client.

Most websites don't need an interactive experience on the client, for what is static content.

Re: The browser's main thread is expensive

#133
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

99% of the time those sites could be plain HTML and CSS, but apparently new generations don't even know how to do that, out of programming bootcamps.

Bad take. HTML is abysmally lacking for any interactive (which is what this article is about). Decades later, even something as common as a combobox is unsupported. EDIT: Downvotes but no argument.

Hence CSS.

Re: The browser's main thread is expensive

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cooperative multitasking isn’t universally a bad idea (in fact, Rust supports it)

You are saying it as if there is some logical consequence.

No, I'm just saying that cooperative multitasking is there for good reason and isn't necessarily a bad idea.

Re: The browser's main thread is expensive

#135

Good article and I wish this was much better known. The issue is though that it's too focused on interactivity. In reality, 90%++ of slow sites are not slow because of interactivity really, they are slow because they ship enormous react/nextjs bundles and have extremely heavy hydration work to do. _so many_ sites have bundles >10MB that need to be downloaded, parsed and hydrated. I've even seen (many) sites which hav…

I challenge you to browse the web one week on this laptop part of the current top 10 Amazon best sellers on a gigabit fiber connection and tell me if you still think that this is the problem: https://www.amazon.com/HP-Everyday-Processor-Microsoft-Porta...

> 【Processor】AMD Processor

> 【Graphics】 Intel Graphics

And this is why you don't buy laptops from Amazon. At best, the seller has no idea what they're doing, at worst, this is fraud.

Re: The browser's main thread is expensive

#136
post #66

Good article and I wish this was much better known. The issue is though that it's too focused on interactivity. In reality, 90%++ of slow sites are not slow because of interactivity really, they are slow because they ship enormous react/nextjs bundles and have extremely heavy hydration work to do. _so many_ sites have bundles >10MB that need to be downloaded, parsed and hydrated. I've even seen (many) sites which hav…

99% of the time those sites could be plain HTML and CSS, but apparently new generations don't even know how to do that, out of programming bootcamps.

> 99% of the time those sites could be plain HTML and CSS

Some of that css and html doesn't run reliably and consistently on all browsers. A visit to sites such as canIuse helps build up an idea of the extent of the problem.

Also, you seem to ignore the fact that JavaScript frameworks use said html and CSS extensively, and provide the necessary abstractions to bridge the unreliability gap in addition to introducing features that html and css do not support.

What I really find funny about this issue is the fact that this type of claim implies that virtually all software engineers who for some reason aren't html+css purists are utterly incompetent and completely unable to assess any technical tradeoffs. Imagine yourself walking around with the belief that an entire field is manned by people who don't have a clue about what they are doing.

Re: The browser's main thread is expensive

#137
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since at least Windows 3.1 we all know that cooperative multitasking is a bad idea. But we see a lot of developers use it, even Rust developers who should know better.

Cooperative multitasking isn’t universally a bad idea (in fact, Rust supports it)

I can't think of a better way to make simple things billions of times slower than they should be.

Re: The browser's main thread is expensive

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>99% of the time those sites could be plain HTML and CSS, but apparently new generations don't even know how to do that, out of programming bootcamps. That is because the latest framework always fixes everything that wasn't broken before.

There is no good technical solution for rendering on the server and upgrading to an interactive experience on the client.

Ignoring for a moment that most websites don't need any interactivity: Even for those that need it, for almost any of them something JQuery-like is more than enough. You really, really, really don't need the latest super big framework.

Re: The browser's main thread is expensive

#139
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no good technical solution for rendering on the server and upgrading to an interactive experience on the client.

Ignoring for a moment that most websites don't need any interactivity: Even for those that need it, for almost any of them something JQuery-like is more than enough. You really, really, really don't need the latest super big framework.

The jQuery spaghetti of the past seems worse than the React spaghetti of today. Too many unpredictable side effects. Changing one thing breaks something else. On business-scale timeframes, you can't clean it up.

React enjoyed its spot in the limelight. Then, unskilled people wrote bad React and the framework, not rank-and-file developers, took the credibility hit. It is more difficult, I suppose, to make a user-perceived slow webpage in jQuery.

Re: The browser's main thread is expensive

#140
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I challenge you to browse the web one week on this laptop part of the current top 10 Amazon best sellers on a gigabit fiber connection and tell me if you still think that this is the problem: https://www.amazon.com/HP-Everyday-Processor-Microsoft-Porta...

In London in many apartment blocks one can only get wired internet via an old copper cable with speeds like 80mbit/s download in theory but in practice it can be below 30 with ping in 50ms range and much slower upload. And 5g does not help either as the signal can be very weak.

Try 10mbit/s down for a copper connection 30 min drive from Auckland (NZ) CBD Thank God for StarLink and other wireless options.
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