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Google Antigravity TOS: 3rd party usage can get Google account suspended

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Re: Google Antigravity TOS: 3rd party usage can get Google account suspended

#61

Post by ryandrake »

tedivm wrote: post #38
dig1 wrote: post #27

> (from Twitter) ...My Google account too valuable to risk it impacted by Antigravity usage If your account is that valuable, it's time to consider moving to a self-hosted option. Or at the very least, start by purchasing a domain and linking it to your Google account, while keeping offline backups of all your emails and documents. The real problem isn't that Google might accidentally ban you; it's that there's no wa…

I don't self host anymore, as it really is a pain, but use Fastmail instead (while my wife uses Protonmail). I would never rely on Google for, well, anything if I can help it.

I have been self hosting E-mail for close to 15 years now, and apart from the occasional and very rare delivery problem, it's not really a pain at all. Get a dedicated IP address not on a spam blacklist, don't spam, and it's pretty much set and forget. Well worth it to not have your very identity hanging off an account that you might one day be banned for for reasons you can't figure out.

Re: Google Antigravity TOS: 3rd party usage can get Google account suspended

#62

Post by kristofferR »

Majromax wrote: post #54
kristofferR wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So? There's still a connection to products not provided by them. Remember that this is a TOS, so you gotta presume that they will act as malicious as possible within the text.

That line of reasoning has no end. If you use Antigravity on anything other than a Google Chromebook or Pixel, the hardware is a 'product not provided by them'. Is that a TOS violation?

Yes. I'd avoid using services like this.

Re: Google Antigravity TOS: 3rd party usage can get Google account suspended

#63

Post by surajrmal »

Havoc wrote: post #30

Banning the entire account rather than AI access is wildly user hostile. People have years of emails and calendars on their accounts. And then you get to fight the support bots and eventually go to the actual unofficial Google support - asking hn whether anyone knows someone with a pulse at Google.

This feels like the sort of thing that needs to be legislated. Banning accounts after breaking ToS is a pretty common behavior across many companies. The fact a Google account ends up being used for multiple products makes it more interesting but the overall problem here is not unique to them.

Re: Google Antigravity TOS: 3rd party usage can get Google account suspended

#64

Post by dylanowen »

segfaultex wrote: post #36
overgard wrote: post #26

I don't get these model providers forcing people to use their (bad) software. I just downgraded my anthropic account because I can't stand the bugfest that is Claude. I won't even touch google for AI. Doesn't matter if your model is good if I have to use your software.

With open-weight models getting closer and closer to parity with frontier models for specific tasks (coding,etc) the frontier labs are trying to make moats via their software. Personally, this is why I foresee Anthropic/OpenAI/Google taking a bath once their creditors come calling. I think the individuals most attached to a specific app are the ones least willing to pay the true cost of inference. (IE: your grandma u…

Kind of ironic for these companies to make their moat software while at the same time saying that SaaS and software development in general is obsolete

Re: Google Antigravity TOS: 3rd party usage can get Google account suspended

#65

Post by Zigurd »

skinfaxi wrote: post #49
killerstorm wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government haven't noticed that email became as important as regular mail, unfortunately.

The government has a monopoly on regular mail though (at least in the US). Should email be treated as a utility?

That would be one way to do it but the problem isn't confined to email. Losing an online identity means losing, in practical terms, access to a wide range of government services and regulatorily required filings.

Total bans are convenient for the big platform providers, but they are big enough to be regulated such that people don't lose access to everything, and that there are timely and responsive ways to challenge their decisions.

If the industry can't do that on its own, it's a job for the regulators.

Re: Google Antigravity TOS: 3rd party usage can get Google account suspended

#66

Post by wat10000 »

Havoc wrote: post #30

Banning the entire account rather than AI access is wildly user hostile. People have years of emails and calendars on their accounts. And then you get to fight the support bots and eventually go to the actual unofficial Google support - asking hn whether anyone knows someone with a pulse at Google.

Big companies are all becoming user hostile these days. They act like the customer is an inconvenience rather than a fundamental part of their business. Every interaction exudes this feeling that your primary role is to serve as an unwanted impediment to money flowing out of your bank account and into theirs.

Re: Google Antigravity TOS: 3rd party usage can get Google account suspended

#68

Post by Zigurd »

jwr wrote: post #48

If there is any company that can "ban your account" which would result in big problems for you (because, for example, they host your E-mail which means you've just lost access to password recovery for every account you have) with no recourse or due process, you should seriously rethink your approach to your online life. Host your own E-mail, people, or use reliable E-mail providers that are not huge corpo-behemoths t…

Alternatively, impose regulatory requirements to keep the 99% who aren't you safe from big tech companies making decisions for their own convenience.

Re: Google Antigravity TOS: 3rd party usage can get Google account suspended

#69

Post by Hizonner »

danschuller wrote: post #4

Apart from the products not being very competitive this is the main reason I'm reluctant to use any Google models / AI products. The account is way to precious thing to lose based on some AI classifier misfiring and then you know there's good route to get it reenabled.

If your Google account is precious, you've already done something wrong...

Re: Google Antigravity TOS: 3rd party usage can get Google account suspended

#70

Post by kmeisthax »

tedivm wrote: post #17

I think an interesting side of this conversation is how the Google employees are jumping in with DARVO attacks, trying to accuse people of spreading misinformation when they're literally quoting the ToS. This is something I've seen happen a lot with Google- their employees (especially the director+ folks) are absolutely rabid on social media when it comes to defending their products, and they don't let little things…

There have been cases in which friends or family of Google employees have gotten the Google Death Penalty. In those cases they were internally stonewalled about this for weeks. Google's risk department works like secret police[0] and I would not be surprised if there is internal disinformation about what the policies actually are in there too.

Also keep in mind nobody reads the TOS. The TOS is pure Wilhoitism: it exists to protect Google and bind you. There is plenty of shit that gets put in there that Google never intends to do to 90%+ of their customers, but they have to reserve the right to do this anyway. You can infer the general shape of business policy from the the TOS but not the exact details.

The only people who actually know anything about Google's business policies are the people in the risk department doing enforcement. The CxO level might have be consulted about specific policies, but a lot of stuff isn't going to rise to their level until it blows up and becomes a PR disaster.

[0] I call this the "Maoists in the Risk Department": in general, there is a tendency of all businesses to independently reinvent Maoism when enforcing rules with their customers. You actively discourage "edge-touching" behavior from your customers by making the rules murky and incomprehensible.

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