Live data from Hacker News

Japan halves speed limit to 30km/h on all narrow city streets

theguardian.com

71–80 of 98 posts

Re: Japan halves speed limit to 30km/h on all narrow city streets

#71
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Machines allow the city to become bigger. Cars are machines. To move stuff. And big machines like buses, trams, subways, planes can move at batch speed. But fail on granularity. I would not say, cars are bad. For me they are the cells that bring the oxygen, to use another analogy. What is missing is organization to avoid clogging. And i dislike the noise and the danger one has. This can be done all better. But i like…

In cities cars have no reason to exist. You can combine better scalable public transit (light rail, subways, trains) with bikes/scooters and you get best of both worlds. Have been living in one for years without a need for a car.

There are many things like moving furniture or even larger amounts of groceries that are infinitely harder without a car.

And then there is also the question of the environment on that public transport. IME "good enough that complaints remain manageable" seems to be the target here unlike a car where you can have private entertainment and air conditioning (not to mention sufficient ventilation) to whatever level you wish.

And even for relatively frequent public transit routes you end up wasting quite a bit of time waiting. Even more so if your start and destination don't happen to be close to the same route.

Re: Japan halves speed limit to 30km/h on all narrow city streets

#72

The headline is a bit misleading because it was already 30km/h on many narrow streets. Something about speed limits in Japan, almost no one follows them. I’ve seen police cars go past speeding cameras without their lights on while exceeding the speed limit by ~20% and everyone around them was doing the same. This sounds like it would be a super dangerous place to drive then, but the speed limits are pretty low on loc…

> Source: I’m working for a rental car company in Japan

Then you should know the posted speed limit is low for enforcement reasons. And yes, the Japanese government and society decided to have a fake speed limit and a real speed limit, rather than change the threshold at which speeding is a prosecutable crime.

Re: Japan halves speed limit to 30km/h on all narrow city streets

#73
post #29

Halved? So you could go 60 on narrow city streets? In Netherland, the speed limit in cities used to be 50, and even in the 1980s, people were complaining that that was too fast. Most residential streets have been 30 (or less; the street I grew up in had a limit of 5 or 10 km/h) for some time, and Amsterdam recently made it the default for all streets with only exceptions for the biggest thoroughfares. They've also ex…

Its ironic, because the biggest danger in Amsterdam are cyclists doing well over 60 inside town narrow streets.

Going 60 you need to have a _really_ good bike and want to go that fast. I barely manage to keep 30 for more than 20 minutes, and I would consider myself an average cyclist on an above average bike.

Re: Japan halves speed limit to 30km/h on all narrow city streets

#74
post #29

Halved? So you could go 60 on narrow city streets? In Netherland, the speed limit in cities used to be 50, and even in the 1980s, people were complaining that that was too fast. Most residential streets have been 30 (or less; the street I grew up in had a limit of 5 or 10 km/h) for some time, and Amsterdam recently made it the default for all streets with only exceptions for the biggest thoroughfares. They've also ex…

Its ironic, because the biggest danger in Amsterdam are cyclists doing well over 60 inside town narrow streets.

A cyclist that can do sustained 60km/h in narrow streets is an elite athlete.

Have you tried biking at 60km/h? Even on a very good bike with a gigantic gear ratio I don't think you'd manage to get close to it on flat ground.

Quick edit: just to give you some figures, if the bike + cyclist weighs in total about 80kg the cyclist needs to sustain an output of about 1000W (on an aggressive position down on the drops) without wind to ride at 60km/h on flat ground. Very few people on Earth can do that...

Re: Japan halves speed limit to 30km/h on all narrow city streets

#75
post #29

Halved? So you could go 60 on narrow city streets? In Netherland, the speed limit in cities used to be 50, and even in the 1980s, people were complaining that that was too fast. Most residential streets have been 30 (or less; the street I grew up in had a limit of 5 or 10 km/h) for some time, and Amsterdam recently made it the default for all streets with only exceptions for the biggest thoroughfares. They've also ex…

Its ironic, because the biggest danger in Amsterdam are cyclists doing well over 60 inside town narrow streets.

> cyclists doing well over 60 inside town narrow streets

I used to cycle and I don't think I could achieve 60 on flat ground like Amsterdam. That's very solid sprinting that even the best cyclists in the world can only achieve for short periods of time. On narrow Amsterdam streets with cobblestone? Impossible...

Re: Japan halves speed limit to 30km/h on all narrow city streets

#76
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You probably mean over 30-40 km/h, not 60.

No I mean up to 60... km/h https://youtu.be/aEHIqqaPIqI And you can see here "normal" bikes clocked at 36 Km: https://youtu.be/FdoViT8-s5I?t=47 you get hit by one of these silent missiles, with an 80kg passenger on it, you spend weeks in hospital...you are older person, its life threatening... Amsterdam bikes are terrifying :-))

> No I mean up to 60... km/h

That's not a bicycle, that's a motorbike.

Re: Japan halves speed limit to 30km/h on all narrow city streets

#77
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No I mean up to 60... km/h https://youtu.be/aEHIqqaPIqI And you can see here "normal" bikes clocked at 36 Km: https://youtu.be/FdoViT8-s5I?t=47 you get hit by one of these silent missiles, with an 80kg passenger on it, you spend weeks in hospital...you are older person, its life threatening... Amsterdam bikes are terrifying :-))

WTF how does she measure 36km/h on the leisurely cycling people? And how does she measure the 28km/h guy when being so far from the direction he's travelling?

It's probably a device meant for and tested to measure cars, not arbitrary objects. Probably needs to be used in a specific way too.

Re: Japan halves speed limit to 30km/h on all narrow city streets

#78
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You probably mean over 30-40 km/h, not 60.

No I mean up to 60... km/h https://youtu.be/aEHIqqaPIqI And you can see here "normal" bikes clocked at 36 Km: https://youtu.be/FdoViT8-s5I?t=47 you get hit by one of these silent missiles, with an 80kg passenger on it, you spend weeks in hospital...you are older person, its life threatening... Amsterdam bikes are terrifying :-))

> No I mean up to 60... km/h

"Cyclist" and "someone on an illegal e-bike" are not one and the same thing.

> And you can see here "normal" bikes clocked at 36 Km:

No, those people freewheeling on a regular city bike on relatively flat ground are not doing 36 km/h. That's around 20 km/h by my somewhat well tuned eyeballs. Have you never been on a bike and measured your speed?

You're not going to be seeing cyclists going 36 km/h beyond significant downhills or sporty people on drop bar bikes putting in significant effort.

Re: Japan halves speed limit to 30km/h on all narrow city streets

#79
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its ironic, because the biggest danger in Amsterdam are cyclists doing well over 60 inside town narrow streets.

A cyclist that can do sustained 60km/h in narrow streets is an elite athlete. Have you tried biking at 60km/h? Even on a very good bike with a gigantic gear ratio I don't think you'd manage to get close to it on flat ground. Quick edit: just to give you some figures, if the bike + cyclist weighs in total about 80kg the cyclist needs to sustain an output of about 1000W (on an aggressive position down on the drops) wit…

>A cyclist that can do sustained 60km/h in narrow streets is an elite athlete.

Most "cyclists" are now actually drivers of light electric motorcycles. A $1500 Chinese ebike will do that easily.

Re: Japan halves speed limit to 30km/h on all narrow city streets

#80
post #32

The article don't have a good picture of a small road. Here's an example https://kuruma-news.jp/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/20230214_g... Usually these roads are so small, you can barely fit a car and maybe one pedestrian on one / each side. And these streets are quite common in residential area. As in the picture, usually there are light poles along the pedestrian street. the pictures pole is pretty small but normall…

In Germany that would probably be a "verkehrsberuhigter Bereich", Traffic calming area with a speed limit of 7 km/h. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_street#Around_the_world

Sweden has a similar concept where car and pedestrian traffic share the same space. The rule says that pedestrian has priority.

A less-known aspect of this is that bike traffic (and scooters) are also limited to 7km/h. Very few people actually follow that traffic rule, and enforcement is very rare. There are shared bike and pedestrian roads where bikes are allowed to go faster, but they are more rare and has their own designation.

Post reply on HN