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Japan halves speed limit to 30km/h on all narrow city streets

theguardian.com

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Re: Japan halves speed limit to 30km/h on all narrow city streets

#41

Post by Shank »

buran77 wrote: post #26
NalNezumi wrote: post #10

The article don't have a good picture of a small road. Here's an example https://kuruma-news.jp/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/20230214_g... Usually these roads are so small, you can barely fit a car and maybe one pedestrian on one / each side. And these streets are quite common in residential area. As in the picture, usually there are light poles along the pedestrian street. the pictures pole is pretty small but normall…

I'm surprised the limit was so high on those narrow, low visibility streets to begin with. In many EU countries the limit is 30km/h even on streets that are double the size, if they're in residential neighborhoods to increase pedestrian safety.

All of the posted limits around my area are 30 or lower on this type of street. It seems like the real change is if the limit is unposted the assumed default is now 30 instead of 60, which is probably fair.

Re: Japan halves speed limit to 30km/h on all narrow city streets

#42

Post by sigilis »

tcp_handshaker wrote: post #30
mcv wrote: post #29

Halved? So you could go 60 on narrow city streets? In Netherland, the speed limit in cities used to be 50, and even in the 1980s, people were complaining that that was too fast. Most residential streets have been 30 (or less; the street I grew up in had a limit of 5 or 10 km/h) for some time, and Amsterdam recently made it the default for all streets with only exceptions for the biggest thoroughfares. They've also ex…

Its ironic, because the biggest danger in Amsterdam are cyclists doing well over 60 inside town narrow streets.

In my experience, cyclists travel from 15-25 in the city. Very rare to find someone going 60. Even motorcycles don’t usually go that fast. There’s a lot of people on the streets of Amsterdam.

The biggest danger here is not terribly clear. Somewhere in the intersection of people cluelessly walking into the bike lane and bicyclists hitting the clueless.

Re: Japan halves speed limit to 30km/h on all narrow city streets

#43

Post by buran77 »

maratc wrote: post #25
idoubtit wrote: post #12

Maybe in Japan it will be effective. Since their "zone 30" creation was apparently a success, it seems probable that people will generally comply. My experience in France differs. I live in a French town where the default speed limit is 30 km/h instead of the national 50 km/h. In the street where I live, the drivers that willingly (sometimes they can't overtake bikes and slow cars) observe that limit are a tiny minor…

Street bumps are much more efficient in lowering speed than either "automated controls" or "manual controls". You (plus neighbours, probably) could petition your council to put one (or several) on your street.

The elegant way to implement such a speed limit is to have the driver do a "slalom" between things like trees or parking spots set alternatively between the two sides of the street, or green islands in the middle of the street. It forces a low driving speed without the discomfort and potential damage caused by speed bumps.

Street bumps are a discomfort even for those who respect the speed limit, and sometimes for residents (more noise) so they don't have popular support unless it's a problematic area, with a low safety record. There are high tech bumps that incorporate a radar sped detector and instantly raise in front of speeding cars but there are costly and require more maintenance.

Re: Japan halves speed limit to 30km/h on all narrow city streets

#44

Post by zuck_torrenter »

idoubtit wrote: post #12

Maybe in Japan it will be effective. Since their "zone 30" creation was apparently a success, it seems probable that people will generally comply. My experience in France differs. I live in a French town where the default speed limit is 30 km/h instead of the national 50 km/h. In the street where I live, the drivers that willingly (sometimes they can't overtake bikes and slow cars) observe that limit are a tiny minor…

[flagged]

Re: Japan halves speed limit to 30km/h on all narrow city streets

#45

Post by PJ_Maybe »

Neywiny wrote: post #23
NalNezumi wrote: post #10

The article don't have a good picture of a small road. Here's an example https://kuruma-news.jp/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/20230214_g... Usually these roads are so small, you can barely fit a car and maybe one pedestrian on one / each side. And these streets are quite common in residential area. As in the picture, usually there are light poles along the pedestrian street. the pictures pole is pretty small but normall…

Your edit reminds me of some years ago at a conference an American was asking in a boasting way what some European people thought of cybertrucks. I don't know if he owned one or worked on them or just liked them, but he seemed to want some praise on it. They tore into it including how big it was relative to narrow European streets and that they wouldn't be legal to sell in Europe. The guy didn't talk to them after th…

I saw one in Austria for the first time just a couple of weeks ago. It had Polish number plates, so presumably it is legal to buy and register one there, and to drive it in other EU countries.

Re: Japan halves speed limit to 30km/h on all narrow city streets

#46

Post by cucumber3732842 »

cryptopian wrote: post #14
PunchyHamster wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that might be news to you but those people don't give a shit about speed limits

Worse than that, driving can be a partially subconscious activity and people tend to drive at the speed that "feels" right. It's why the best approach to slowing motor vehicles in places with people walking is to physically design the road to feel uncomfortable driving too fast, rather than slap a 20mph sign on a wide straight road.

> It's why the best approach to slowing motor vehicles in places with people walking is to physically design the road to feel uncomfortable driving too fast, rather than slap a 20mph sign on a wide straight road.

Unfortunately that doesn't facilitate bad people's need to stomp other people with the state and without bad people who want to stomp people with the state there wouldn't be enough people on the bandwagon to get anything done. That's the unfortunate deal with the devil that is faced in pretty much every area of public policy.

Re: Japan halves speed limit to 30km/h on all narrow city streets

#47

Post by left-struck »

The headline is a bit misleading because it was already 30km/h on many narrow streets.

Something about speed limits in Japan, almost no one follows them. I’ve seen police cars go past speeding cameras without their lights on while exceeding the speed limit by ~20% and everyone around them was doing the same.

This sounds like it would be a super dangerous place to drive then, but the speed limits are pretty low on local roads, and instead of driving the speed limit, people drive at a speed more similar to what you’d find for a similar road in most countries.

If you ever have the opportunity to drive in Japan, just drive at a speed you’re comfortable at and not faster than most of the traffic around you, and you’ll be fine. This isn’t legal advice though.

The one place I wouldn’t recommend exceeding the speed limit are those very narrow roads, many accidents happen there, though they’re rarely fatal.

Source: I’m working for a rental car company in Japan

Re: Japan halves speed limit to 30km/h on all narrow city streets

#48

Post by brucehoult »

Many rather wide streets in the centre of New Zealand cities have had 30 km/h speed limits since ... I think the 1990s.

For example here, Willis St in Wellington:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/8hHCLxCDK4C8U8Tz9

You can see it is already 30 km/h in the first streetview capture in 2008.

Re: Japan halves speed limit to 30km/h on all narrow city streets

#49

Post by Sharlin »

idoubtit wrote: post #12

Maybe in Japan it will be effective. Since their "zone 30" creation was apparently a success, it seems probable that people will generally comply. My experience in France differs. I live in a French town where the default speed limit is 30 km/h instead of the national 50 km/h. In the street where I live, the drivers that willingly (sometimes they can't overtake bikes and slow cars) observe that limit are a tiny minor…

Reducing the speed limit often does little in itself because the v85 (85th percentile of speeds) is more dependent on how fast drivers feel it is safe to drive. Streets should be (re-)designed so that the limit and drivers’ intuition match, but that, of course, takes time and money (and will). Still, it’s much more economical in the long run than active monitoring/enforcement.

Re: Japan halves speed limit to 30km/h on all narrow city streets

#50

Post by cassepipe »

mcc1ane wrote: post #27
NalNezumi wrote: post #10

The article don't have a good picture of a small road. Here's an example https://kuruma-news.jp/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/20230214_g... Usually these roads are so small, you can barely fit a car and maybe one pedestrian on one / each side. And these streets are quite common in residential area. As in the picture, usually there are light poles along the pedestrian street. the pictures pole is pretty small but normall…

"The Secret to Japan's Great Cities" (Not Just Bikes) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlwQ2Y4By0U (thank you, cassepipe)

The Secret to Japan's Great Cities - Not Just Bikes

Consider at least giving the title of what you want to share and even to add a small description as to why this is worth anyone's time

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