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GrapheneOS says Pixel 11 has MTE support after all
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Re: GrapheneOS says Pixel 11 has MTE support after all
#152Re: GrapheneOS says Pixel 11 has MTE support after all
#153Re: GrapheneOS says Pixel 11 has MTE support after all
#154My strong instinct is that GrapheneOS's plan could be problematic: Generally, do not to invest in features that the upstream vendor isn't fully committed to. It might work today, but tomorrow or next year, etc., it might not. They might even deploy other things that are incompatible or do other things that assume the feature is disabled. In fact, plans to do those things might be the reason they disabled MTE. Also, n…
GrapheneOS is a non-profit, publicly naming the actual issues is the only thing they can do to make Google fix those issues. And it is clear that security/privacy is their first priority, not "brand image"
Re: GrapheneOS says Pixel 11 has MTE support after all
#155> It's possible to enable reserving the tag memory for MTE via `fastboot oem mte on`, boot a non-stock kernel ignoring arm64.nomte and use MTE. What I'd like to know is, is it not sufficient to just check the feature bits in ID_AA64PFR1_EL1? (Isn't this the first thing you'd try when trying to determine if the hardware supports some feature?) If they were making the determination solely based on the fact that `arm64.…
ID_AA64PFR1_EL1 was discussed five days ago
https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/41564-pixel-11-doesnt-meet-...
Re: GrapheneOS says Pixel 11 has MTE support after all
#156Earlier quoted context omitted.
What are you talking about? You're making zero sense. I've been in the niche of modifying and installing my own ROMs, then to kernels, and now doing the same things commercially. It is a niche, it always was. There was never a mass community of users, the most installs you used to see on any given AOSP based project is maybe 20-30K for the most popular devices like Redmis, Pocos or Google Nexus phones. It's still a n…
> It is a niche, it always was. Again, only because the platforms are locked down and there is no single standardized target for universally bootable ROMs in the way a Linux ISO can boot on any PC. Kinda sounds like you might be younger and didn't live through the 8bit micro -> PC transition. Standardization of the platform led to a cambrian explosion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influence_of_the_IBM_PC_on_the...
> Again, only because the platforms are locked down and there is no single standardized target for universally bootable ROMs in the way a Linux ISO can boot on any PC.
Couple of things here. Android was never that open to begin with. There were always (and still going) issues with the kernel sources being withheld indefinitely, AOSP side changes are almost never released at all, iirc only Google released anything. Bootloaders were always an issue, not all manufacturers had unlockable (or easily unlockable) bootloaders.
Ironically, Google were always the spearhead of the standartization in the Android world. Project Treble and stuff resulted in the fact that almost any Android device released these days can run a generic Android image, it's not gonna be as functional as the original Android, but it's something.
Yes, I am on the younger side, that's why I know how it was in the Android world. Nobody is interested in reinstalling OS-es on their phones because the amount of effort to create an Android ISO that's as usable as what's preinstalled is truly gigantic. Android flavours are heavily customized for the needs of the OEM, and for the hardware that they're gonna run on.
It's a niche, always was and always will be. A niche powered by a few large players like LOS or GOS, that actually get paid somehow or heavily work for the idea, and an army of teenage unpaid maintainers, who quit the maintainership as soon as they get a properly paying job that takes most of their time (me).
Re: GrapheneOS says Pixel 11 has MTE support after all
#157Earlier quoted context omitted.
To expand a bit: 16-byte chunks of memory can be associated with a four bit tag. Then you steal four unused high bits from your pointers to store a tag value. When memory has a tag, a pointer used to access it must have the matching tag in its high bits. Your malloc implementation can then assign a different tag to adjacent allocations and any overflow into an adjacent allocation will have a mismatched tag and will t…
Implementing MTE is mostly another step in Apple’s efforts towards memory safety. There are bunch of things they’ve done to try to make this work a little better, but for obvious reasons, this is never going to be turned on by default for user apps and is only enabled for specific pathways. > Because EMTE tag checking imposes a performance cost, we designed Memory Integrity Enforcement to take advantage of our secure…
Ive had MTE enabled on GrapheneOS for the past 3 years for pretty much all apps I use without any issues.
Theres a couple of apps that use C++ libraries for which I disable MTE.
Most android apps using Java or Kotalin which hugely helps with avoiding buggy apps crashing with MTE enabled.
Android can and does regularly force developers to make changes to their apps to improve privacy and security on the platform. Like theyve done with other changes they could gradually force developers to fix bugs in their apps. Maybe offer a MTE opt out for apps that use memory unsafe languages.
Think its likely Apple and Google will increasingly push forward the use of MTE in Android and iOS
Re: GrapheneOS says Pixel 11 has MTE support after all
#158Earlier quoted context omitted.
Actually functionality, stability of apps and features people use.
What functionality and features are lost in the base Pixel OS (not apps) as a direct result of GrapheneOS's changes to AOSP?
Very little if anything at all. Depends a bit how you draw the line between an app and the base OS.
Contactless payments dont work with Google Pay - but that is due to Google using attestatiom to check if the OS is GMS lincesed (GrapheneOS is not).
There are alternative contactless payment options that work fine.
Re: GrapheneOS says Pixel 11 has MTE support after all
#159Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because it (anecdotally) crashes too much, but only on $$$ devices with cool CPUs that can use it. People buy expensive phones because they're supposed to work better. They should really do some sort of sampling thing to generate crash dumps and find big offenders and increase the coverage over time. For Google employee devices, 0.1% of background execution starts while charging in an idle period (overnight bedtime c…
I wonder what causes the crashes. Is it a buggy MTE implementation (or buggy hardware), or are app devs doing something that would only cause crashes under MTE? Maybe it’s something they are using like a library or framework?
Its buggy apps. Ive been using MTE for pretty much all the apps on my GrapheneOS phone for 3 years without any problems.
2 apps have C++ libraries and MTE makes these crash due to memeory bugs, so I disable MTE for these.
Re: GrapheneOS says Pixel 11 has MTE support after all
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
GrapheneOS themselves said it wasn't worth getting the 11 over the 10 on Twitter. It has a worse GPU and less RAM, and the increase in CPU speed is so negligible that often you end up with better performance using the previous generation. In addition, GrapheneOS isn't even available on 11 series devices yet.
The 11 series has a new MediaTek modem compared to previous Pixels(since 7 I think?). The old modem had power efficiency issues during poor cellular signal as well as a relatively lengthy GPS lock acquisition. I don't think there is enough evidence yet about either but I can attest that GPS feels improved over my 7. It's only been 1 week though. The non-Pro 11 has a much larger photo sensor and has more base storage.…
Yeah the camera seems to better which could be deciding to some people. But while the base storage has increased the price did too, so a base 265gb might cost the same as an upgraded one from 128gb.