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Can I opt out of my input or output data being used for training?

help.mistral.ai

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Re: Can I opt out of my input or output data being used for training?

#211

Post by rcxdude »

20k wrote: post #140

You have to be rather naive if you don't think these companies don't simply train on your prompts with or without your consent. They literally scrape everything - legal or not - and claim its fair use to train on, including straight piracy The idea that they'll steal from everyone except you is just wishful thinking

This only makes sense if your model is 'the labs are just breaking the rules all the time' as opposed to 'the labs have a legal theory of defense for the one aspect of the business which is legally questionable'. The question of whether doing something their terms of service explicitly say they will not do opens them up to civil liability is a much more certain one than anything they are doing around copyright. If they are doing this and anyone can prove it, they are going to be sued very hard, and it will be a pretty straightforward case.

(To put it another way: if the copyright arguments against training on data scraped from the internet fail, the big AI companies don't really have a business, so they are going to proceed on the basis that they do until someone forces the issue otherwise. They don't need to train on data from their customers, and that is an argument that is almost certain to fail in court. If you're carrying 100kg of cocaine in your car, speeding is a really dumb idea, but the analogous action here would be firing a machine gun into the air from the driver's seat)

Re: Can I opt out of my input or output data being used for training?

#213

Post by rcxdude »

flakeoil wrote: post #205
deadbabe wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t care about what they do, I only care about what they say, that way, when compliance requires us to use LLMs that don’t train on inputs, I can point to that policy and continue on using the LLM. If they are secretly scraping input prompts, that no longer becomes my problem. Someday, a massive lawsuit comes down, and everyone gets to play the victim. You’re naive for thinking we don’t know how this really works…

What they say is not the same as what they wrote in the ToS you didn't read. If they stole your stuff and used in to train their model, what does it help if there is a lawsuit some years later which you most likely have no benefit from?

Have you read their ToS? It's not that hard. This feels like this nihilistic 'law is witchcraft and the big company lawyers always have you screwed in the fineprint' when it generally is pretty comprehensible with not that much work.

Re: Can I opt out of my input or output data being used for training?

#214

Post by duskdozer »

teekert wrote: post #46
throwaway89201 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and at the same time seemed to have lost the ability to centrally disable training on prompts for your entire organization There is a toggle on https://admin.mistral.ai that allows you to disable training for both Vibe and Console/API for your entire organisation. And I'm not on the enterprise plan. I've disabled training the first time I created an account, and it has remained that way. You story is also very conf…

I don't have that toggle (but could indeed have sworn I saw it earlier). Sorry, I have always thought that "opting in" is, "opting for the presented option" and opting out is "opting out of it", so opting out [of sharing prompts for training] is choosing to not share, but apparently I was wrong my whole life. I'm not a native speaker, and I think most people here (in my country) would interpret this the way I do? Wei…

No you're not wrong, but while I can't speak for this specific instance, in many other cases, this language is intentionally confusing in order to dark-pattern users into agreeing to the thing they don't want to. Similar is using ambiguous language next to a switch/checkbox that makes it difficult to tell exactly what each state means.

Re: Can I opt out of my input or output data being used for training?

#215

Post by stingraycharles »

olejorgenb wrote: post #155
gitgud wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have an enterprise contract with them, the legal protections for the consumer is much higher… is what I’ve been told anyway

Not sure what you are saying exactly, but > the legal protections for the consumer is much higher You know you give away the right to file class action law suits against Anthropic when you accept their Terms Of Use, right? (at least the Americans ones)

Is that the case with enterprise contracts as well? Can’t imagine any decent procurement / legal team accepting this.

Re: Can I opt out of my input or output data being used for training?

#217

Post by r_lee »

vineyardmike wrote: post #182
20k wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, they've already violated the law in acquiring all their training data already, why would they be uncomfortable violating a contract to get more training data?

Because violating the law was the prerequisite to starting their business, without it they're worth $0 and have no models. They've already survived Training on customer input may help the models but it isn't "bet the farm" helpful. Now, they have a thriving business, so they shouldn't risk their business for incremental data that they can buy. At this point, the reputation of the business matters too. Fable explicitl…

and they're under no contract with those millions of websites and books, but it's a whole other thing when it's a paying customer, especially a large enterprise with a signed contract with DPAs etc.

Re: Can I opt out of my input or output data being used for training?

#218

Post by leonidasrup »

_puk wrote: post #129
Aldipower wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Today I registered a free account with Grok, because I simply was curious. Man, training is "off" by default even with the free tier. I was positively surprised. As a European I'm disappointed too.

Lol, I'm fully expecting in 6 months time: "A bug in our portal had the setting for training inverted. This means that when you expected us not to be training on your data, we actually were. We know this adversely impacts the trust our users invested in us, so as of today we are crediting all affected accounts with $200 to use on our latest models".

Until the risk of large financial penalties or long jail times is high enough, the CEOs of there companies operate using the "It's Better to Ask for Forgiveness Than Permission" model.

Re: Can I opt out of my input or output data being used for training?

#219

Post by icantevenhold »

f6v wrote: post #199
icantevenhold wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This means exactly what? I think you would be hard pressed to find any relevant tech company that doesn’t have a relationship with the Saudis or is funded by them - or any government for that matter…

Yeah, let's just sweep it under the rug then!

Nah but be a little bit more specific than just sprinkling random FUD - what is the relationship and why is it problematic ?

Re: Can I opt out of my input or output data being used for training?

#220

Post by half_fish »

mahirsaid wrote: post #109
bee_rider wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I 100% agree that “opt-in by default” is bad and that “opted” in that sense is a bullshit incoherent phrase. Unfortunately this “opting as a thing that happens to you instead of a choice” idea has evidently been promoted well, so we have to expect that people will unknowingly use it.

And suddenly we have laws directing AI companies to report bad behavior or potential rival candidates.

And some shadowy departments do this without needing any laws at all.
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