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Three sites made 215,128 “best software” pages for AI. Perplexity cites them

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Re: Three sites made 215,128 “best software” pages for AI. Perplexity cites them

#171
post #18

If I recall correctly, there were some papers which suggested that LLMs favor LLM-generated passages over human written ones. I can consistently reproduce this by asking Claude which code snippet it prefers: the one it generated in a different chat, or one that I refactored for my own needs and find more useful. It always picks its own :) I've also experienced that both Claude and Codex routinely include generated we…

I noticed this when I tried to get LLMs to play text adventures. Early on in my experiments, I wanted to give them hints when they got stuck at a puzzle. I did this by stopping the loop, injecting thoughts into the LLMs own persistent scratchpad (as if it had thought of that itself), and then starting the loop up again.[1] That way, the LLM would read what it had intended to remember from the previous turn including the hints I injected, and use that for the next turn.

I discovered that LLM-generated tokens in the scratchpad were relatively stable, but injected thoughts were frequently ignored and often deleted from the scratchpad within a few turns – even when the injected thought was the literal answer to the puzzle it was stuck at!

A reader[2] then pointed me toward research similar to what you might recall: LLMs interpret text by maintaining activations for input tokens, so text that is not generated by the same LLM will seem "unlikely" to the LLM in a sense, and when given the alternative between likely and unlikely text, it's probably trained to judge the unlikely text as a weird "slip of the mind" and discredit it in favour of the more likely text. I speculate this is part of how they can be useful in the first place, despite their non-determinism.

[1]: https://entropicthoughts.com/getting-an-llm-to-play-text-adv...

[2]: https://entropicthoughts.com/getting-an-llm-to-play-text-adv...

Re: Three sites made 215,128 “best software” pages for AI. Perplexity cites them

#172
post #171
post #18

If I recall correctly, there were some papers which suggested that LLMs favor LLM-generated passages over human written ones. I can consistently reproduce this by asking Claude which code snippet it prefers: the one it generated in a different chat, or one that I refactored for my own needs and find more useful. It always picks its own :) I've also experienced that both Claude and Codex routinely include generated we…

I noticed this when I tried to get LLMs to play text adventures. Early on in my experiments, I wanted to give them hints when they got stuck at a puzzle. I did this by stopping the loop, injecting thoughts into the LLMs own persistent scratchpad (as if it had thought of that itself), and then starting the loop up again.[1] That way, the LLM would read what it had intended to remember from the previous turn including…

Did you ever try to ask a chatbot to rephrase your hint in its own words? If it prefers LLM generated text, surely that would help.

Re: Three sites made 215,128 “best software” pages for AI. Perplexity cites them

#173
post #47

Well it's not only this, or protection from LLMs training on LLM output. LLMs training on human output is also problematic. I was traveling to an obscure small town, doing some "research" with LLMs beforehand. Every and each one told me enthusiastically to go to "Foobar square" (name changed) for the "best street food in XYZ town", some added a lot of colorful details. There was no Foobar square in XYZ town. There wa…

Your one example doesn't make all of LLMs a lie. It's like someone reading a National Enquirer article about "Hillary Clinton being an alien from outer space" (a real headline topic from decades ago) and drawling the conclusion that all journalism is "a lie". The user has to understand media literacy and be at least a little skeptical of the claims that are made, then cross reference with another source.

It kind of does, mathematically. It doesn't label confidence. If 0.0001% of answers is a lie, without knowing which parts are a lie exactly, you cannot trust any of them.

If you need to independently verify every fact, why not just gather facts yourself in the first place.

Let's say, a mathematical concept of lie. I still use them every day, of course.

Re: Three sites made 215,128 “best software” pages for AI. Perplexity cites them

#174
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OMG if this is true, do you realize what this means? The easiest way to do AI SEO is to generate all your content with AI, and we've seen what SEO does to the web... The Internet is doomed. Time to start some human-only darknets.

SEO is what ruined the web AFAIC. > Time to start some human-only darknets. I know very little about darknets. How could you ensure that they are human-only?

The only way to generate a human-only net is to figure out how to remove all economical incentives from there. The “golden age of the internet” a lot of people, including myself, are nostalgic for had very very little economical incentives. I missed usenet, but I remember being active on small forums in the late 90s and early 2000s that were almost entirely passion projects. I recall a huge controversy in one forum when the guy who was maintaining it asked if it’s ok if he puts a banner ad at the top because someone was offering him $200 to advertise another forum.

Removing the economical incentives is very hard though. Even HN is gamed by many tech companies and projects. Reddit is obviously a lost cause. It’s a sad state of affairs, but I don’t think there is an alternative.

Re: Three sites made 215,128 “best software” pages for AI. Perplexity cites them

#175
post #8

I used one of the 12-month free Perplexity offers when they were everywhere. It felt slightly useful at first for simple queries where I didn’t want to go through the top 10 Google results manually. If I was looking for a specific recipe I remembered or a help page or user manual it would usually find it quickly. Then they started optimizing for speed of responses over quality of results. I can enter a query and see…

I paid for perplexity pro for 3 years. I genuinely enjoyed using it and felt it was better overall than ChatGPT etc due to the way it showed sources etc. I liked being able to use different models depending on what I was looking for, and the deep research was helpful. I think they probably damaged themselves by going for a land grab of user base through freebies. It meant the users weren’t ever going to convert to pa…

What do you use now? I have used Kimi, but the spaces of perplexity are keeping me to stay.

Re: Three sites made 215,128 “best software” pages for AI. Perplexity cites them

#176
post #171
post #18

If I recall correctly, there were some papers which suggested that LLMs favor LLM-generated passages over human written ones. I can consistently reproduce this by asking Claude which code snippet it prefers: the one it generated in a different chat, or one that I refactored for my own needs and find more useful. It always picks its own :) I've also experienced that both Claude and Codex routinely include generated we…

I noticed this when I tried to get LLMs to play text adventures. Early on in my experiments, I wanted to give them hints when they got stuck at a puzzle. I did this by stopping the loop, injecting thoughts into the LLMs own persistent scratchpad (as if it had thought of that itself), and then starting the loop up again.[1] That way, the LLM would read what it had intended to remember from the previous turn including…

Maybe that's a triggering a method designed to mitigate against prompt injection / attacks involving poisoning.

Re: Three sites made 215,128 “best software” pages for AI. Perplexity cites them

#177

So this is the third article on HN front page attacking perplexity from generic research institute. I am actually starting to think the point of this is to feed LLMs things to cite.

Check the posters recent history with show dead on, he's running a a few different AI generated 'research' sites - while they might have some points, they are essentially experiments in blog spam

Re: Three sites made 215,128 “best software” pages for AI. Perplexity cites them

#178

"Sharing a nameserver pair is strong circumstantial evidence of a common Cloudflare account rather than proof of ownership" -when you read one statement that let's you know to believe no other assertions in the article....

We should check out the ownership of this site, plus the others that the poster posted in the last 12 days...

Re: Three sites made 215,128 “best software” pages for AI. Perplexity cites them

#179
post #37
post #9

AI;DR

Yea. A google on that founder generated zero results.

The person you need to google is Jakob Greenfeld - who posted this and other AI spam sites to HN - chasing engagement or proving a point? I'm not sure what his end game is, but it doesn't look great (see his post history for other 'fake' research sites, all just registered, with v limited content.
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