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Qantas Airbus A380 engine failure in 2010 (2023)

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Re: Qantas Airbus A380 engine failure in 2010 (2023)

#31

Post by usefulcat »

u1hcw9nx wrote: post #3

Turbine disk failure is one thing that can down a plane, and you can only reduce the probability so much. Fan blades and turbine blades can be contained by containment cases if they break off, but turbine disks can't. When a disk breaks, it's an uncontained engine failure. A 20 kg disk fragment flying at Mach 1 goes through everything. Airframes are have a 30-degree fragment spread cone around every disk stage. Airfr…

> Jet fuel cannot be stored in the wings in this zone.

TFA describes a fuel leak resulting from a piece of the turbine disk passing through a fuel tank located within the wing:

"When the fragments of the IP turbine disk passed through the wing and belly of the A380, they caused considerable secondary damage along the way, not only to the №2 engine but also to the left wing fuel tank, which sprang a leak"

It also includes a photo of the inside of the damaged wing tank.

Was the requirement you describe added after this incident?

Re: Qantas Airbus A380 engine failure in 2010 (2023)

#32

Post by ahartmetz »

usefulcat wrote: post #31
u1hcw9nx wrote: post #3

Turbine disk failure is one thing that can down a plane, and you can only reduce the probability so much. Fan blades and turbine blades can be contained by containment cases if they break off, but turbine disks can't. When a disk breaks, it's an uncontained engine failure. A 20 kg disk fragment flying at Mach 1 goes through everything. Airframes are have a 30-degree fragment spread cone around every disk stage. Airfr…

> Jet fuel cannot be stored in the wings in this zone. TFA describes a fuel leak resulting from a piece of the turbine disk passing through a fuel tank located within the wing: "When the fragments of the IP turbine disk passed through the wing and belly of the A380, they caused considerable secondary damage along the way, not only to the №2 engine but also to the left wing fuel tank, which sprang a leak" It also incl…

Seems close to impossible for existing designs. The wings are commonly almost entirely full of fuel at max fuel, and I doubt that taking the capacity hit is an option even in newly designed planes.

Re: Qantas Airbus A380 engine failure in 2010 (2023)

#33

Post by shawabawa3 »

adaml_623 wrote: post #18

"Even the airplane itself ultimately survived: after a marathon repair that lasted 535 days and cost $139 million, the A380 Nancy-Bird Walton triumphantly returned to the skies in 2012." This quote amazes me. My understanding is that Airbus, Qantas, and probably Rolls Royce were willing to spend this much because it meant that the incident was not a "hull loss" and therefore not as bad a hit to reputation and safety…

They paid an estimated $300M per aircraft, so even a $139M repair bill is worth it

Re: Qantas Airbus A380 engine failure in 2010 (2023)

#34

Post by ahartmetz »

adaml_623 wrote: post #18

"Even the airplane itself ultimately survived: after a marathon repair that lasted 535 days and cost $139 million, the A380 Nancy-Bird Walton triumphantly returned to the skies in 2012." This quote amazes me. My understanding is that Airbus, Qantas, and probably Rolls Royce were willing to spend this much because it meant that the incident was not a "hull loss" and therefore not as bad a hit to reputation and safety…

A new A380 is more expensive (rule of thumb half of official list price, so about $220 million), and airlines were not talking about retiring A380s yet at the time. So it even made economic sense.

Re: Qantas Airbus A380 engine failure in 2010 (2023)

#35

Post by HDBaseT »

Alien1Being wrote: post #5

Qantas is a troubled airline. Once a Qantas aircraft technician even told me that Singapore Airlines have a far superior maintenance schedule for their aircraft. This person claims that he tells his family to avoid flying on Qantas ( but flies on it himself since he gets free flights) These days Han airlines ( SIA, Cathay,China Eastern) and Middle Eastern airlines (Emirates,Qatar) are far better than Western Airlines…

Despite this, Qantas is consistently rated one of the top 3 safest airlines in the world every year.

Re: Qantas Airbus A380 engine failure in 2010 (2023)

#36

Post by echoangle »

renox wrote: post #26
realo wrote: post #14

Catastrophic failure? Check Plane landed without casualties? Check Plane design so good it helped avoid casualties? Check Hum... Ah! Not an american Boeing but a french Airbus. Of course. The article mentions this story should make everyone a little less afraid of flying. Sure, as long as its not on a Boeing plane.

Read about the AF447 Rio-Paris crash. Input stick averaging?? That's a huge design mistake which contributed to the crash and AFAIK is still here..

What’s the alternative? I think averaging with a dual input alert is a pretty good solution. Otherwise you need to find a solution to transition from one stick to the other. You can’t just switch sticks with the press of a button because the input could jump from elevator up directly to elevator down for example.

Re: Qantas Airbus A380 engine failure in 2010 (2023)

#37

Post by bluebarbet »

ginko wrote: post #20
realo wrote: post #14

Catastrophic failure? Check Plane landed without casualties? Check Plane design so good it helped avoid casualties? Check Hum... Ah! Not an american Boeing but a french Airbus. Of course. The article mentions this story should make everyone a little less afraid of flying. Sure, as long as its not on a Boeing plane.

Airbus is French, German and British. Not just French.

The state-held stakes are mainly French, German and (less) Spanish. The UK taxpayer currently owns 0% of Airbus, though the UK gets the business of building wings and landing gear.

Re: Qantas Airbus A380 engine failure in 2010 (2023)

#38

Post by 4fterd4rk »

echoangle wrote: post #36
renox wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read about the AF447 Rio-Paris crash. Input stick averaging?? That's a huge design mistake which contributed to the crash and AFAIK is still here..

What’s the alternative? I think averaging with a dual input alert is a pretty good solution. Otherwise you need to find a solution to transition from one stick to the other. You can’t just switch sticks with the press of a button because the input could jump from elevator up directly to elevator down for example.

You give them direct feedback and eliminate the need for this completely

Re: Qantas Airbus A380 engine failure in 2010 (2023)

#39

Post by NetMageSCW »

jacquesm wrote: post #22
chasil wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I admit that I glossed over the section on the machining of the oil pipe, but the facility appears to bear most of the blame. These were pulled and scrapped from the whole A380 fleet. "Investigators also criticized the culture within the Hucknall facility that manufactured the HP/IP bearing hubs, identifying signs of complacency and widespread procedural non-compliance. A paperwork review showed that the required sig…

That's an oversight failure as much as a failure of that plant.

The oversight was at the plant.
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