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Exit the Cave

turtlespace.blog

61–70 of 114 posts

Re: Exit the Cave

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marriage is good if you want kids. Otherwise, there's really no point to it and most people would be happier and better off single. It's also why a lot of married people divorce after their kids are grown.

hahah what a weird take! You don't have any biological imperatives for sex, and dare I say affection? Must be quite the peaceful life indeed!

Those needs don't require marriage. Nor do they exclude monogamy, in case you think I'm implying that.

Re: Exit the Cave

#62

> A writer needs readers. An entrepreneur needs customers. An athlete needs competition. A lover needs someone free to reject him. Any worthy pursuit needs a mat. Nah. I judge myself by how I progressed from yesterday, not by whether what I am or what I built is useful to others. Is keeping a diary pointless if you're not planning to make it a memoir? Is staying healthy pointless if you aren't using that health to co…

Despite my other comment in this thread I strongly agree with this! I have "stupid" schemes and do "useless" side projects purely for their own sake and for my own enjoyment, and I am very happy with them. Those things are expressed freely, and never came from a cave.

But I think this article is for people who may not be introspective and self-aware enough to know the difference between private, self-satisfied enjoyment and private, self-inflicted suffering. Some people fool themselves into thinking they do something for the joy of it, and remain unsatisfied, because they harbor higher hopes they never admit to themselves.

For Rimworld: some people like making hyperoptimized minmax colonies for their own satisfaction (haven't played it myself, but I do play Factorio so I get it). But you can imagine that some people who _think_ they play for fun, but also really want the validation of posting their killbox on Reddit and having people acknowledge how good it is, and if they don't get that then they retreat to their cave and work on an even "better" colony, and maybe this one will be the one that people will praise [0, maybe? looked for an example]. And so they get wrapped up in a whole meta-argument about their playstyle and how they choose to enjoy the game and can't just simply... enjoy it?

[0] https://www.reddit.com/r/RimWorld/comments/1v0nwg4/alright_y...

Re: Exit the Cave

#63
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also don't see a strong link between training at a competitive activity, and releasing a product. Obviously, training against real opponents is crucial. But the world is full of half-baked products, especially software. If you show up to your first tournament and lose pathetically in the first round, no one is going to prevent you from attending the second tournament. But people will permanently write off your prod…

At the same time lots of half-baked products are successful and generate real value for the users and the creators.

And some people win the first tournament they attend. Again, flubbing your first tournament is much less persistent than flubbing a product release. Significantly different risk profiles.

Re: Exit the Cave

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you don't know if there is demand without selling. This is an awkward balance The answer is you start with the sale. Once you’ve sold it, you build it. Ideally, you sell it to customers first. Less ideally, to investors.

And hopefully you are honest with your customers that you are selling something that does not yet exist. That makes it even harder. You have to sell the idea of your idea.

> you are honest with your customers that you are selling something that does not yet exist. That makes it even harder

Most are. I’ve always been. Preörders are real.

They don’t even need much cash to change hands. Just the commitment.

Building before selling is ultimately art and hobby.

Re: Exit the Cave

#65

> A writer needs readers. An entrepreneur needs customers. An athlete needs competition. A lover needs someone free to reject him. Any worthy pursuit needs a mat. Nah. I judge myself by how I progressed from yesterday, not by whether what I am or what I built is useful to others. Is keeping a diary pointless if you're not planning to make it a memoir? Is staying healthy pointless if you aren't using that health to co…

The mat is the objective (or at least distinct from your own personal judgement) measure of your goal. If your goal is important to you, an objective measure of your progress towards it is more valuable than your own flawed and biased opinion. The mat for the diary might be the times you consulted back to it for useful introspection and came out better for it, the mat for your health goal could be your blood test fro…

As best I can tell, the stoics argued against exactly this. The parable of archer[1] is the best summation of this philosophy - that one’s ultimate aim is to do all in one’s power to shoot straight rather than hit the target.

1. https://www.thelatinlibrary.com/cicero/fin3.shtml

Re: Exit the Cave

#66
Frighteningly, I've also found that you can be in the cave together with a group of people. I went to an MMA gym for a long time, and it was very common to see overconfident 'experienced' new members start sparring and get their ass handed to them. It was always someone from a small town or a gym that didn't participate in the larger MMA community. Those smaller gyms followed the same ruleset, but are made up of individual egos that always want their own hand raised. You can go for years in a group that has collectively agreed to hide from actually bumping up against the limits of their abilities.

Re: Exit the Cave

#67

> A writer needs readers. An entrepreneur needs customers. An athlete needs competition. A lover needs someone free to reject him. Any worthy pursuit needs a mat. Nah. I judge myself by how I progressed from yesterday, not by whether what I am or what I built is useful to others. Is keeping a diary pointless if you're not planning to make it a memoir? Is staying healthy pointless if you aren't using that health to co…

I think the warning in the article is a little more subtle.

The author isn’t placing a moral judgement on certain goals or whether the result of reaching that goal has a large enough audience.

They are warning against doing things that work against achieving our goals in ways that are hard for us to notice by ourselves.

Re: Exit the Cave

#68
post #37

A couple weeks ago I went by myself for a hike through an old lava tunnel cave. I needed a flashlight because it was pitch black. I found a small nook in the wall about a mile in that I could wedge myself in to. I sat down, turned off my light, and let myself feel the enveloping darkness for a long time. I cried. The only sounds were of small droplets of cold water hitting the floor and my body. I let myself settle i…

[flagged]

Re: Exit the Cave

#69
post #20

> A lover needs someone free to reject him As G. K. Chesterton said, > Marriage is a duel to the death, which no man of honour should decline. https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/1718/pg1718-images.html...

Marriage is good if you want kids. Otherwise, there's really no point to it and most people would be happier and better off single. It's also why a lot of married people divorce after their kids are grown.

The data speak very strongly against this conclusion. The data is deep and broad that marriage leads to better outcomes, and is a result of marriage itself, not selection for people who tend to get married, although that also helps. Also, this doesn't mean that every marriage results in better outcomes for every couple, just that it tends to do so.

One study that summarizes previous studies is below, but there are literally hundreds of others.

The Effects of Marriage on Health: A Synthesis of Recent Research Evidence. Research Brief (https://aspe.hhs.gov/reports/effects-marriage-health-synthes... Note: an official US government web site.)

"Married people are generally healthier than unmarried people, as measured by numerous health outcomes.(1) To investigate the complex relationship between marriage and health, this review scrutinizes recent research, focusing on studies that use rigorous statistical methods to examine whether marriage is a cause of these better health outcomes."

Re: Exit the Cave

#70
'This masculine urge to “grind”'

I recall recently reading an essay by a woman who described at one point how important simply trudging through was.

Not sure that "masculine" is apposite here

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